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Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling
Do we owe our teens a "fun summer"?
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das




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 28 2018, 4:54 pm
Crust, I agree with your posts.

If you live in a community where all your child's friends are in camp it is a necessity not a luxury. I think the parents attitude should be to do everything in their power to make it happen. Maybe the teen can work one half plus babysits during the year to fund part of it while the parents can work something out with the camp like a payment plan or have the teen work as a mothers helper, as someone suggested. I remember back when I was in camp girls that were mothers helpers loved being so chummy with head staff. Plus, there's a govt program that pays for teens to work in camps.

If all options have been explored and exhausted then there may be no choice but for the child to stay home. But it should not be out of principle but out of lack of options.
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amother
Olive


 

Post Thu, Jun 28 2018, 6:55 pm
Summer camp in my house is defined as “yeshiva״

Year round my kids attend a great yeshiva and in the summer I get to hang out with my preteens. go to the beach, biking movies bowling. Play dates with kids who “might? “be around.( though we all know it’s pretty quiet)

Honesty, op talk to ur daughter ask her if she likes her counseling job and if she doesn’t have her quit. She should have fun this summer . Can she be your mother’s helper for younger siblings? Give her a small salary?

Have dd make a “bucket” list of things she would like to do this summer. PIck out all the possibilities amongst the many.youll be surprised she may just want to go shopping at a cool store or just go bike riding.

Have pizza and ice cream night and celebrate summer, it’s just begun!

Camp is not always an option, for us it never was. 50,000 in yeshiva tuition is our greatest luxury so don’t feel bad op. And most importantly Your daughter will just need to deal with adversity and become creative with some gentle guidance.
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pause




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 28 2018, 7:36 pm
OP, I felt bad for you in your first post. Between a rock and a hard place.

But the way you responded in your last post, I feel for your DD. You didn't hear or care what anyone here said. You bow out of the conversation as an attempt to end it. If this is your communication style with your DD, no wonder she's feeling resentful. You are being very matter of fact about it, but in the process you are cutting off people's opinions and feelings, and this will not be effective in gaining cooperation.

Instead: Think about your DD. Think about how she feels. Think about what you would feel like if you were left out of an experience that all your friends have. Really feel for her. And then you can approach the whole situation with a fuller picture of what's going on for her, and you will be able to deal with it with more sensitivity and creativity.

Hatzlacha!
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amother
Taupe


 

Post Thu, Jun 28 2018, 7:42 pm
crust wrote:
Camp is not a luxury anymore because the definition of luxury, especially to a teenager, is a privilege that only a small percent of society has.
Let's not discuss why camp became a necessity but it is.

OP, you dont owe your kids a fun summer but you do owe them to not make a child do something very different than her peers. It is never a smart move in chinuch.

Can she go for the second half of camp?

This!! There is nothing more important to a teenager than fitting in, being “normal.”
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amother
Olive


 

Post Thu, Jun 28 2018, 7:55 pm
amother wrote:
This!! There is nothing more important to a teenager than fitting in, being “normal.”


Sorry, according to my accounting for my family camp is a luxury.

we are saving for college so that our kids will not have to take out huge student loans.
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creditcards




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 28 2018, 8:05 pm
How can all her friends families afford it? My best advice is to live between people who have the same means as you. I love the place where I live. Everyone here is tight with money and living about the same lifestyle.
It's very difficult to be different than everyone around you. Even for adults.
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amother
Olive


 

Post Thu, Jun 28 2018, 8:14 pm
creditcards wrote:
How can all her friends families afford it? My best advice is to live between people who have the same means as you. I love the place where I live. Everyone here is tight with money and living about the same lifestyle.
It's very difficult to be different than everyone around you. Even for adults.


I’m not trying to jump in on the ops thread, but where I live lots of families send their kids to sleep away camps. I think that is great for them and I do not judge, let those who can enjoy!

Op, just do your own thing and have a relaxing and fun summer! If you are relaxed then your dd will be too! Do what’s best for ur family.
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amother
Ruby


 

Post Thu, Jun 28 2018, 8:23 pm
amother wrote:
You are overestimating the meaning of teen drama. No one ever lost their kid because they couldn't go to canp. Because a mother doesn't send her kid to camp doesn't mean her mother doesn't care about her child. Because a mother says no doesn't mean she does love her kid.

I don't deem camp silly or frivolous, I deem it a want. Housing, food, clothes, health care are needs. Camp doesn't pass the test.

There is a family in our shul that constantly asks for money to be raised for them. They are always in crisis. This family is sending all their kids to camp while saying they don't have mortgage money, etc. The family has been cut off now. I agree with the shul that if you can afford camp, you can pay your mortgage first.


My mother is still resentful to her mom that she never went to camp. (At almost age 60) So much that she forced me to go to camp when I hated it. Think if it pays for your child to have this resentment their entire life.
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amother
Olive


 

Post Thu, Jun 28 2018, 8:32 pm
Op, arrange for a day trip to a water park/ amusement park something special just for her!

There r cool things to do for teens in nyc like “escape the room”
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amother
Orchid


 

Post Thu, Jun 28 2018, 8:35 pm
amother wrote:
My mother is still resentful to her mom that she never went to camp. (At almost age 60) So much that she forced me to go to camp when I hated it. Think if it pays for your child to have this resentment their entire life.


Your mother needs therapy.
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amother
Forestgreen


 

Post Thu, Jun 28 2018, 9:11 pm
amother wrote:
Sorry, according to my accounting for my family camp is a luxury.

we are saving for college so that our kids will not have to take out huge student loans.


Another possibility is, they get excellent grades, score well on the SAT, and accept a large scholarship at a lower tier school than perhaps you would prefer.

Just wanted to point out that it's not essential for a BA to come with high student loans.
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creditcards




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 28 2018, 10:20 pm
amother wrote:
Your mother needs therapy.


And that's a great way to cause your child to need therapy. By making them feel devrived and resentful. I believe it's a necessity to have what all friends have. Emotional necessity.
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LovesHashem




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 28 2018, 10:52 pm
crust wrote:
I agree that camp has taken on an importance that it should not have.

Again; Its not about going to camp or not.

IT IS ABOUT PUTTING THE CHILD IN A SPOT THAT IS VERY VISIBLY DIFFERENT THAN ALL HER PEERS.

If the OPs daughter would have a few good friends to hang out with then my response would be very different.


MY QUESTION IS:

How on earth is your daughter enrolled in a school where every single girl of the 100 in her grade can afford sleepaway camp and you cannot?

If she is in that type of school I imagine there's tons of other standards, for shoes, clothes, bags, etc. How are you keeping up? Why on earth did you choose a school known to have students that are all financially wealthy?

If it's 75 percent or even 90 percent of te grade SHE IS NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO IS "DIFFERENT" SHE WILL NOT DIE IF SHE STAYS HOME.
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Bnei Berak 10




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jun 29 2018, 12:17 am
pause wrote:
OP, I felt bad for you in your first post. Between a rock and a hard place.

But the way you responded in your last post, I feel for your DD. You didn't hear or care what anyone here said. You bow out of the conversation as an attempt to end it. If this is your communication style with your DD, no wonder she's feeling resentful. You are being very matter of fact about it, but in the process you are cutting off people's opinions and feelings, and this will not be effective in gaining cooperation.

Instead: Think about your DD. Think about how she feels. Think about what you would feel like if you were left out of an experience that all your friends have. Really feel for her. And then you can approach the whole situation with a fuller picture of what's going on for her, and you will be able to deal with it with more sensitivity and creativity.

Hatzlacha!


This is the hear of the matter. Couldn't have said it better myself.
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amother
Orchid


 

Post Fri, Jun 29 2018, 3:36 am
creditcards wrote:
And that's a great way to cause your child to need therapy. By making them feel devrived and resentful. I believe it's a necessity to have what all friends have. Emotional necessity.


The mother doesn't need therapy because she didn't go to camp. The mother needs therapy for holding onto a grudge because she didn't go to camp. None of us give our children perfect childhoods. There are a lot more serious things to be upset about than not going to camp. Camp is not a make it or break it if you are a good mother.
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amother
Olive


 

Post Fri, Jun 29 2018, 3:52 am
amother wrote:
Another possibility is, they get excellent grades, score well on the SAT, and accept a large scholarship at a lower tier school than perhaps you would prefer.

Just wanted to point out that it's not essential for a BA to come with high student loans.


I wouldn’t rely on that happening. Have you seen what college tuition costs these days?

I was a b plus student and went to a CUNY school and Fasa gave me $100 towards tuition. They paid for a textbook. A private college offered me a 5000 scholarship but their tuition at that time ( twenty years ago) was 15,000 dollars. Money we did not have. Rather than take a school loan, I worked my way through college and graduated debt free.

My friend on the other hand was an A student, scored high on her SATs and went to a state school. Left college with 60,000 or more in debt. Yes she also had a partial scholarship.

If you multiply 10 years of summer camp in the amount of 6,000. You get 60,000 dollars.

Also my dh wants to retire from his highly stressful job by the time he is 60. It effects his total well being. I work in education so my salary could never cover the costs of yeshiva and camp alone.

My kids do not attend camp, they know we are working hard and saving money for their future. They love the down time of summer and appreciate the break from their busy Yeshiva year. They are G-d forbid not deprived!

Suggestions to op that she take out a loan and accumulate debt in order to send her dd to camp I find to be irresponsible and indulgent. I also don’t agree with her using babysitting money to pay for camp (only if the family has some wealth and are trying to teach their child a lesson in responsibility) I would rather babysitting money go towards her savings for the future ( in her own bank book)

I am also amazed that people here are telling Op to move from her own home because she should not live in such a priveleged neighborhood. This to me makes absolutely no sense! Uproot the whole family from probably a good neighborhood and community!
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amother
Orchid


 

Post Fri, Jun 29 2018, 3:54 am
LovesHashem wrote:
MY QUESTION IS:

How on earth is your daughter enrolled in a school where every single girl of the 100 in her grade can afford sleepaway camp and you cannot?

If she is in that type of school I imagine there's tons of other standards, for shoes, clothes, bags, etc. How are you keeping up? Why on earth did you choose a school known to have students that are all financially wealthy?

If it's 75 percent or even 90 percent of te grade SHE IS NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO IS "DIFFERENT" SHE WILL NOT DIE IF SHE STAYS HOME.


Thank you for saying what I have been thinking all thread. It is childlike to say everyone has or everyone does when it is only the majority.

DD choose not to go to camp this summer because someone in the family is terminal. The majority of her friends went away. DD also told me everyone is in camp but her. There is nothing to do. Yesterday, she got together with 3 friends, texted and spoke with more. We live in town.

To put things in perspective, my prognosis is bad. DD will not be harmed by not going to camp, it is far better that she spend time with me.

The harm that comes to kids is from situations like abuse, neglect, illness, etc.. Kids get over jealousy of not going to camp. Giving in to jealousy when it is financially harmful to the family is far worse. It teaches bad midos.
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amother
Babyblue


 

Post Fri, Jun 29 2018, 4:02 am
amother wrote:
I wouldn’t rely on that happening. Have you seen what college tuition costs these days?

I was a b plus student and went to a CUNY school and Fasa gave me $100 towards tuition. They paid for a textbook. A private college offered me a 5000 scholarship but their tuition at that time ( twenty years ago) was 15,000 dollars. Money we did not have. Rather than take a school loan, I worked my way through college and graduated debt free.

My friend on the other hand was an A student, scored high on her SATs and went to a state school. Left college with 60,000 or more in debt. Yes she also had a partial scholarship.

If you multiply 10 years of summer camp in the amount of 6,000. You get 60,000 dollars.

Also my dh wants to retire from his highly stressful job by the time he is 60. It effects his total well being. I work in education so my salary could never cover the costs of yeshiva and camp alone.

My kids do not attend camp, they know we are working hard and saving money for their future. They love the down time of summer and appreciate the break from their busy Yeshiva year. They are G-d forbid not deprived!

Suggestions to op that she take out a loan and accumulate debt in order to send her dd to camp I find to be irresponsible and indulgent. I also don’t agree with her using babysitting money to pay for camp (only if the family has some wealth and are trying to teach their child a lesson in responsibility) I would rather babysitting money go towards her savings for the future ( in her own bank book)

I am also amazed that people here are telling Op to move from her own home because she should not live in such a priveleged neighborhood. This to me makes absolutely no sense! Uproot the whole family from probably a good neighborhood and community!
for you, this is not about not having enough money. It’s about prioritizing other things. Like college and retirement and saving. And it’s your right. I’m just saying that everyone always has a better place to put their money, and sometimes what you think is the biggest favor and most important to your daughters future, in the end isn’t really.
I hope your daughter appreciates the choices you’ve made.
I know I’d be resentful if I never went to camp for the sake of college money. (I did a combination of Cleps, in state tuition, scholarship, and some private college, yes Ive worked throughout and have student loans but not too bad)
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amother
Silver


 

Post Fri, Jun 29 2018, 4:12 am
amother wrote:
for you, this is not about not having enough money. It’s about prioritizing other things. Like college and retirement and saving. And it’s your right. I’m just saying that everyone always has a better place to put their money, and sometimes what you think is the biggest favor and most important to your daughters future, in the end isn’t really.
I hope your daughter appreciates the choices you’ve made.
I know I’d be resentful if I never went to camp for the sake of college money. (I did a combination of Cleps, in state tuition, scholarship, and some private college, yes Ive worked throughout and have student loans but not too bad)


Believe it or not some people don't have money for retirement, college, or savings.
And they are expected to send their kid to camp because as posters here have written, it will "damage" the daughter for life.
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LovesHashem




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jun 29 2018, 4:13 am
amother wrote:
[/b]

Thank you for saying what I have been thinking all thread. It is childlike to say everyone has or everyone does when it is only the majority.


............................

The harm that comes to kids is from situations like abuse, neglect, illness, etc.. Kids get over jealousy of not going to camp. Giving in to jealousy when it is financially harmful to the family is far worse. It teaches bad midos.


EXACTLY. THIS THIS THIS. Is it the majority is every single girl in the entire grade going?


Last edited by LovesHashem on Fri, Jun 29 2018, 6:24 am; edited 1 time in total
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