Why are counselors notoriously underpaid?

amother

Magenta

Wed, Jun 27 2018, 8:49 pm

My 16 yr old is working in a daycamp this summer. And he is making the equivalent of 1.50-2.00 an hour.
The camp isn’t paying for room and board, which if they were I would understand paying little.

Why is this acceptable? He works really hard and when he realized that girls babysitting at night get 10 an hour to do practically nothing he was really bummed.

Is this normal? Do girl counselors also get paid so little?

amother

Coral

Wed, Jun 27 2018, 8:52 pm

Is this legal in the country where you live? When I was a kid in the US I worked for a day camp through youthcorp. Pretty sure I got paid more than that. Not sure what's around now though.

amother

Brown

Wed, Jun 27 2018, 8:54 pm

It is normal because it's not calculated by hour. It's by week or month usually. And it's pretty typical because it's considered work experience for the kids for the most part.

amother

Black

Wed, Jun 27 2018, 9:04 pm

They are paid that little - because they can.

Depending on the camp - the tips at the end of the summer are a big part of the overall compensation.

octopus

Wed, Jun 27 2018, 9:11 pm

If you are in NYC you need to get on to youth Corp. It's probably too late for this summer

thunderstorm

Wed, Jun 27 2018, 9:32 pm

Over 20 years ago in NYC I was on youth Corp and received $600 for 8 weeks in addition to about $250 in tips I received from the parents at the end of the summer.
$850 in 8 weeks was very nice over 20 years ago.

amother

Gold

Wed, Jun 27 2018, 9:45 pm

Youth Corps is supposed to be minimum wage for hours from 9-2:30, 4 days a week. Those are the hours my brother and sister have (not in a camp). However, the day camps take advantage and keep their counselors working many additional hours. Maybe they're making more than $2 an hour, but definitely still well below minimum wage.

The camps pay so little because they can. That's why my brother and sister decided to get placed elsewhere and actually get paid minimum wage for the proper number of hours.

amother

Babyblue

Wed, Jun 27 2018, 9:48 pm

amother wrote:

Yes, girl counselors also get paid so little, notwithstanding whatever decent amount they may get babysitting. It's obnoxious. Camp is expensive and the counselors aren't getting paid. Someone somewhere is raking it in.

notshanarishona

Wed, Jun 27 2018, 9:51 pm

Camp has a lot of costs . Renting a pool, trips, supplies, etc.etc. in many ways the activities
Are more expensive monthly than a school. The only way they keep the costs down is by cheap labor.

amother

Emerald

Wed, Jun 27 2018, 9:55 pm

And for the same reason our teachers are paid so little: because we allow it

amother

Scarlet

Wed, Jun 27 2018, 9:56 pm

You think that's bad? I have to pay $50/week for my 13yo daughter to be a junior counselor.

amother

Olive

Wed, Jun 27 2018, 10:05 pm

That is crazy. My eldest dd is doing summer youth and gets paid minimum wage.

amother

Bronze

Wed, Jun 27 2018, 10:13 pm

Anon because this just happened and I’ve told a lot of people.

Were not in NY, fwiw (NYers may not realize that youth corps is nyc only, maybe other cities have a similar model but dont assume that every city has it.

My daughter is 14, almost 15. She applied to a local day camp that charges $$$ and gets use of their building for free because the camp is part of the school that they use for summer premises. Camp hired her with a caveat - they dont know if they can pay her, and wont know until the last day. Let that sink in. She may be working for free. Or for $20. Or even $200. She wont know until the last day. She declined and the camp is STILL looking for JCs.

Another camp hired her, and there were actually way more JC applicants than jobs. This camp told her upfront that they pay $300/month plus tips (if she gets, our locale doent have a tipping culture but some people tip). She had to commit the whole summer. Bo problem - this is a high paying camp when you compare it to other camps. The kicker is that the owner lives in Israel and comes in to the states every summer to run the camp. Its a glorified back yard camp. Not legal, not liscensed (which is how dd can work there - she doesnt have a work permit). The lwner makes her year’s parnassa during these 8 weeks. Thats how popular her camp is.

Eta - I worked at a very popular NYC camp (not brooklyn) as a morah for many years. The 15 year olds not on youth corps made MAYBE $100 for the summer. The owners literally laughed and wondered out loud what parents allowed their kids to take these jobs. They figured, possibly correctly, possibly not, that many of these counselors couldn’t afford overnight camp and so they were happy to get whatever they could get to keep himself busy. They really took advantage. And when people complained at the end of the summer because the owners were very wishy-washy about what everybody got paid, they shrugged. This camp cost $2000/8 weeks and it was full. Hundreds of campers. Crazy.

amother

Brown

Wed, Jun 27 2018, 10:37 pm

amother wrote:

You think that's bad? I have to pay $50/week for my 13yo daughter to be a junior counselor.

That's because the junior counselors need a lot of babysitting themselves.

studying_torah

Wed, Jun 27 2018, 11:05 pm

What is youth corp?

thanks

Wed, Jun 27 2018, 11:21 pm

I worked as a counselor in a day camp for several years in HS. We got paid very little, but the camp took us out or had activities for us in the evening. I saw it as a fun experience despite the fact the I came home exhausted every day. Some summers I worked as a mothers helper to make money (since my parents really had none.).

amother

Scarlet

Wed, Jun 27 2018, 11:35 pm

amother wrote:

That's because the junior counselors need a lot of babysitting themselves.

That's the argument we were given. For the purposes of government ratios, 13 year olds count as children so they have to actually hire MORE adult staff to accept JCs.

Why then can't they just make a bunk for 13yos.

I live in a small community where there is only one frum local day camp. My girls are going to camp for one month, nothing for them to do second month except JC. I DO not want them sitting around the house all day.

amother

Amethyst

Thu, Jun 28 2018, 12:07 am

Because owners are making $$$$$$. Like at schools- the heads make a lot and the teachers not so much. The less they pay staff, the more they take home.
I remember working one summer and when j got my paycheck I was told that "we don't share with others how much you made" because they obviously weren't paying equitably.
And while I was in high school ( above working age of 16) the "adult Morahs" did nothing. Literally- one stepped out for an hour without giving us an activity or telling us when she'd be back. I was the Morah effectively.

amother

Burgundy

Thu, Jun 28 2018, 12:15 am

My dh is part of headstaff in a Brooklyn camp. He works 9 to 430 and gets paid 5000 for the whole summer. It comes out to 18 an hour. We don’t send our kids there so there is no benefit of free camp. Maybe the owner of the camp is making nice money but his headstaff sure isn’t...

amother

cornflower

Thu, Jun 28 2018, 12:34 am

studying_torah wrote:

What is youth corp?

Youth Corp is a program of NYC, officially called Summer Youth Employment Program, or SYEP. It is basically the city funding jobs for teens ages 14?-24, to keep bored teens off the street in the summer. Anyone can apply, and they are chosen by lottery. Then there are a lot of technical stuff that any teen in NYC can tell you about- minimum wage, amount of hours per week, signing the papers...