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Is this normal? Fear of MAGA hat on child?
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amother




Burgundy


Post  Wed, Jul 11 2018, 12:33 am
Fox wrote:
Jeanette, you can insult me all you want. What's important is what you're not doing while you're criticizing me.

You're not giving specific examples, and when you are, they are often inaccurate, such as claiming that President Trump called "journalists" the "enemies of the American people" rather than "fake news."

You're not posting links to support anything you say, whether it's a fact, statistic, or support for an opinion.

You're not providing evidence for any of your assertions, such as your claim that Russia specifically enabled Trump's victory.

You're not telling anyone who and what you read to help develop your opinions -- something that I've done repeatedly and boringly (and then been accused of "obscure name-dropping" by people who apparently thought I was dreaming things up on my own and don't see the point of referencing influences).

You're not engaging in any discussion of policy, because as you've said, you don't believe anything good that Trump might do is worth having him in office. Since he is in office, all that leaves is endless fulminating about how awful he is.

And that seems to be what we always come back to -- if I can't see how awful he is, then I must be delusional . . . or whatever.

It's not necessary for anyone to like Trump. He's often very unlikable. Nor is it necessary to agree with all of his policies. If you find a President whose every action you agree with, it's probably a bad sign. But we're well into his term, and none of the awful prognostications have come to pass -- not even close. In fact, by a number of measures, things are going pretty well. So maybe I'm not the one who is delusional . . .


Policy aside - I think his leadership style is making Americans Less Great. I have no quotes. I think he has made uncivil discourse acceptable. I think the increasingly radicalized left is his fault.

I don’t agree with the ‘abolish ICE’ tribe. However I was livid that the POTUS response when they rallied was ‘this is good for me, the liberals are falling apart’ (paraphrasing). Some sort of presidential response - some attempt to say, I’m hearing you Americans.
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sushilover









  


Post  Wed, Jul 11 2018, 12:50 am
Jeanette, can I ask why you ignored my question about condemning Obama? Twice.
I'm asking because this must be the third or fourth thread in which I was called to condemn Trump, but posters on the left refused to condemn their own side.

I'm baffled.
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Fox









  


Post  Wed, Jul 11 2018, 1:10 am
amother wrote:
Policy aside - I think his leadership style is making Americans Less Great. I have no quotes. I think he has made uncivil discourse acceptable. I think the increasingly radicalized left is his fault.

This is an interesting question, and sometimes I feel the same. Oh, and thank you for expressing it in a thoughtful, mindful manner so that it can actually lead to discussion.

I've heard a lot of different theories about why we've become so fragmented and angry in our civil life.

One theory goes all the way back to the 60s -- to the so-called "Balkanization of America" in which we lost a sense of consensus about our goals as a country and as individuals. There's probably something in that.

Another theory that I've heard advanced recently, particularly among "intellectual dark web" types like Christina Sommers and Dave Rubin, is that a lot of the work of the left has been done. Meaning that the social justice issues, such as racial equality, gender equality, LGBT rights, etc., that animated the left for so long are no longer really debated.

Gay marriage was really the final issue, and once the Supreme Court sanctioned it, no one except some lady in Kentucky got upset. So the left has had to find new issues, and this is how we've ended up with transactional s-x, transgender bathroom rights, immigration, and other issues that don't lend themselves to clear, easy arguments.

British journalist Douglas Murray has called this a case of "a supply and demand problem with bigotry." That seems to be true scientifically as well as behaviorally. A study was released just a few weeks ago that showed subjects identify "problems" in data even when the problems don't exist -- if they've been instructed to look for these problems.

A final theory is simply good ol' fashioned reckoning. A lot of conservatives feel that they've been maligned by the left unfairly for many years, and they're finally exerting their muscles. I have mixed feelings about that. Like a lot of the #WalkAway testimonials, I've had so many experiences over the years where I felt like I had to accept someone's left-wing rant but would be ostracized if I answered back.

The worst still haunts me: a few years after my DD's death, a long-time "friend" lectured me about how none of the services my daughter had received would be available under President Bush. Her ignorance was matched only by her arrogance -- we'd had to go to federal court to make our HMO pay medical bills, and we got absolutely nothing from any government agency. But I just sat there and took it because I didn't want to make a scene.

So I suspect that a lot of people are just fed up and suddenly are feeling empowered to answer back. It would shock my friend if I got in her face politically now because she wouldn't understand that I remember how she treated me 20 years ago.

Truthfully, I suspect the decline in civility is a little of all of these. Has Trump made it worse? Probably, but part of me feels like he just tapped into something that was there, waiting to be released.

amother wrote:
I don’t agree with the ‘abolish ICE’ tribe. However I was livid that the POTUS response when they rallied was ‘this is good for me, the liberals are falling apart’ (paraphrasing). Some sort of presidential response - some attempt to say, I’m hearing you Americans.

Again, I have mixed feelings. On one hand, I cringe when he crows too openly about some minor PR victory.

On the other hand, what a brazen bait and switch! "Reunite families!" was the not-illegitimate demand. So Trump does that -- obviously "hearing" everyone -- and the response is not, "Oh, great! He listened and gave us something reasonable that we asked for." Instead, the response is, "How dare he maintain our borders? Abolish ICE!" Which seems to suggest that they didn't care about the families in the first place . . .
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DrMom









  


Post  Wed, Jul 11 2018, 1:10 am
Jeanette wrote:
Wow, Simba.

I may have strong opinions and I'm not shy about expressing them, but I have NEVER threatened a child or accused anyone else on this thread of doing so.

This is really a new low. You should apologize. I don't usually take internet warriors seriously but calling me a threat to children is despicable.

I read the whole thread.

Simba never said you were likely to threaten a child.
She said she doesn't want her child near many of the people posting here because of their unpleasant personalities:
Quote:
Just seeing how nasty and aggressive the anti-trump team is on this thread, wouldn't want them near my kid even if he wasn't wearing a MAGA hat.


I think it is interesting that you twisted her words, made yourself the victim, and are now demanding an apology.
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amother




Burgundy


Post  Wed, Jul 11 2018, 1:49 am
Fox wrote:
Again, I have mixed feelings. On one hand, I cringe when he crows too openly about some minor PR victory.

On the other hand, what a brazen bait and switch! "Reunite families!" was the not-illegitimate demand. So Trump does that -- obviously "hearing" everyone -- and the response is not, "Oh, great! He listened and gave us something reasonable that we asked for." Instead, the response is, "How dare he maintain our borders? Abolish ICE!" Which seems to suggest that they didn't care about the families in the first place . . .


I’m not interested in debating with you the intentions of a group of people that I know little about. I just wanted some display of leadership from POTUS. (I guess Saturdays are campaign days).
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saw50st8









  


Post  Wed, Jul 11 2018, 7:43 am
Maya wrote:
Liberals are agressive, liberals are name callers. Liberals are this, liberals are that.

Conservatives are all angels. We know that.

How about you try coming up with an original thought for a change?


I think the extremes on both sides are really getting crazier and crazier.

I think there are many people who are more centrist who feel alienated by both sides. That's actually how I think Donald Trump got elected - people were so fed up with the BS that the democrats and republicans were trying to push forward that they said "Anyone but an established politician." Not that it was a good choice....
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Jeanette









  


Post  Wed, Jul 11 2018, 9:28 am
Quote:

I think it is interesting that you twisted her words, made yourself the victim, and are now demanding an apology
.

Oh, there was no mistaking the context.

This thread started with a mother expressing understandable concerns about sending her child out with political slogans on their clothing.

Then there were a lot of handwringing posts about crazy liberals who would stoop so low as to hurt a child

Then, finally, the coup de grace, accusing anti-Trump posters of being so "nasty and aggressive" that they shouldn't be around children.

As I said, I usually do not take internet warriors seriously. But this strikes a nerve. It seriously crosses a line. My core belief is we may disagree about a lot of things but we are Jewish mothers, we sincerely care about our kids and would never actively harm a child. It isn't cute, funny, clever or fair to imply otherwise.
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Jeanette









  


Post  Wed, Jul 11 2018, 9:32 am
sushilover wrote:
Jeanette, can I ask why you ignored my question about condemning Obama? Twice.
I'm asking because this must be the third or fourth thread in which I was called to condemn Trump, but posters on the left refused to condemn their own side.

I'm baffled.


I've already explained numerous times why I don't play the whataboutism game

I didn't vote for Obama, I didn't support a lot of his policies, I certainly wasn't out there vocally defending him at every turn.

Whataboutism is just an effort to deflect and change the subject.
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Jeanette









  


Post  Wed, Jul 11 2018, 9:52 am
Quote:

On the other hand, what a brazen bait and switch! "Reunite families!" was the not-illegitimate demand. So Trump does that -- obviously "hearing" everyone -- and the response is not, "Oh, great! He listened and gave us something reasonable that we asked for." Instead, the response is, "How dare he maintain our borders? Abolish ICE!" Which seems to suggest that they didn't care about the families in the first place . .


This is simply not true. He has not reunited the families. In fact just yesterday they missed a court deadline for reuniting 100 children under 5. There are still almost 3000 older children waiting to be reunited with their families. At every turn the reunification process is being hampered by sloppy logistics, sloppy record keeping and just plain not caring. Trump's response? If you don't want to be separated from your kids, don't come. As if people take this incredibly risky journey just for the fun of it.
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SixOfWands









  


Post  Wed, Jul 11 2018, 10:21 am
amother wrote:
He's busy being tough with the USA's true enemy, Canada. As a proud dual US/CAD citizen, I never thought it possible for our relationship to be as strained and precarious as it is today.


WADR, Canada did burn down the White House during the War of 1812. I guess its about time the US retaliated. Wink
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amother




Burgundy


Post  Wed, Jul 11 2018, 10:32 am
SixOfWands wrote:
WADR, Canada did burn down the White House during the War of 1812. I guess its about time the US retaliated. Wink


It was retaliatory... and the pattern repeats.
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amother




Teal


Post  Wed, Jul 11 2018, 10:35 am
amother wrote:
It was retaliatory... and the pattern repeats.


Canada didn't burn down the WH in 1812, Canada didn't exist until 1867.... The British set fire to the WH.
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Sadie









  


Post  Wed, Jul 11 2018, 10:39 am
amother wrote:
Canada didn't burn down the WH in 1812, Canada didn't exist until 1867.... The British set fire to the WH.


That’s the joke. The stable genius thought Canada burned it down.
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amother




Burgundy


Post  Wed, Jul 11 2018, 11:04 am
amother wrote:
Canada didn't burn down the WH in 1812, Canada didn't exist until 1867.... The British set fire to the WH.


The land above the US was known as Upper Canada and Lower Canada in 1812.
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amother




Cyan


Post  Wed, Jul 11 2018, 11:10 am
...And Obama thought there were 57 states.

And if you want to say he misspoke, or that's taken out of context, or whatever, great. But then apply the benefit of the doubt to presidents in both parties.
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amother




Burgundy


Post  Wed, Jul 11 2018, 11:11 am
amother wrote:
...And Obama thought there were 57 states.

And if you want to say he misspoke, or that's taken out of context, or whatever, great. But then apply the benefit of the doubt to presidents in both parties.


??
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