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Is this normal? Fear of MAGA hat on child?
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Sadie









  


Post  Tue, Jul 10 2018, 3:04 pm
Fox wrote:
No, it wasn't racist to be against family separation, but a lot of people, including many here on Imamother, were naive about it. They were responding emotionally to the idea of crying toddlers being ripped from their mothers' arms, but that is a very tiny fraction of the situations involving minors.

S-x trafficking is a significant issue that ICE deals with, and one of the big pushes in the Trump administration has been to clamp down on s-x trafficking and Internet s-x crimes involving children. DOJ

So after everyone agreed that we don't want toddlers ripped from their mothers' arms, Trump signed a limited executive order to prevent that, and now the complaints are coming in that family reunification is taking too long. I should certainly hope so. The Obama administration's solution to the problem was to place minors with sponsors without doing background checks, leading not only to s-x trafficking but literal slavery. WaPo

So you can bring all the sarcasm you like to the table, the issue is not simple, and too many people seem willing to sell children into slavery simply to make the photo-ops at the border look better.


I’ll be as sarcastic as I like and you, as usual, can backpedal and softpedal as much as you like.
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naturalmom5









  


Post  Tue, Jul 10 2018, 3:12 pm
SixOfWands wrote:
First of all, the camp is well aware that a teenager wearing a MAGA hat was recently attacked, and doesn't want to take the risk. Good for them. They should also be aware of how divisive politics are these days, and keep it out of the camp. Again, good for them.

MAGA is clearly associated with Trump, to whomever thought it wasn't.

As to the KKK comparison, its apt. In June, after being told that 15,000 Haitians had received immigration visas to the US in 2017, Trump reportedly stated that they "all have AIDS.” Of 40,000 who came from Nigeria, he reportedly said, that once they had seen the United States, they would never “go back to their huts.” He told black voters, “You’re living in poverty; your schools are no good; you have no jobs” -- which I can anecdotally say infuriated my African American friends, all of whom are staunchly middle to upper middle class. Add his comments on Mexicans. And Muslims. And other immigrants.

That aside, you have at least 8 white nationalists running for office on the Republican ticket this year. (In many cases, the Republican party itself has denounced them. But fact is that Republicans have voted for them.) These same people claim that Trump's tweets support them. MAGA indeed.

That said, there is free speech. I even support the right of the white supremacists to run for office, to deny the Holocaust, and denigrate African Americans. Fortunately , I also have the right to oppose them.



I am going to apologize and go off topic here...
years
Can I ask you, Six, if you feel as passionate about liberals who are virulently antisemitic and anti-Israel.
How do you feel about the fact that the Democratic party, traditionally the party of the Jews for over 60 years (with the exception of FDR's reaction during the holocaust years), has suddenly abandoned Israel....
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SixOfWands









  


Post  Tue, Jul 10 2018, 3:15 pm
naturalmom5 wrote:
I am going to apologize and go off topic here...
years
Can I ask you, Six, if you feel as passionate about liberals who are virulently antisemitic and anti-Israel.
How do you feel about the fact that the Democratic party, traditionally the party of the Jews for over 60 years (with the exception of FDR's reaction during the holocaust years), has suddenly abandoned Israel....


Oh, I'm not a frum Jew, and really don't care about Jews. Isn't that what you said about me in another thread? Or am I confusing you with someone else?

Yeah, I'm pretty darned passionate about anti-semites on all sides of the aisle. And don't support any anti-Israel candidates. But I most assuredly don't agree with the hawkish Republican support of Israel, either.
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Jeanette









  


Post  Tue, Jul 10 2018, 3:17 pm
I'm totally happy with the president's corruption, putting Putin above our allies, and his disastrous trade policies, because some librul mommies said mean things to me. Perfect logic!
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naturalmom5









  


Post  Tue, Jul 10 2018, 3:26 pm
Sadie wrote:
Sorry snowflake, why don’t you go color in your adult coloring book and cry into your Cheerios about it.


I really think that anyone who can't conduct themselves with a minimum of decorum and menslickeit should be banned from participating on political threads....

This is still Imamother... If you can't be a nice FRUM LADY first and foremost, regardless of your political views, this not the place for you...

I am going to rite to Yael about this...
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Fox









  


Post  Tue, Jul 10 2018, 3:28 pm
SixOfWands wrote:
The racism there isn't what you think it is, of course. Its in assuming that most nannies and housekeepers are undocumented aliens.

Um, right. It was actually racism, classism, entitlement, and probably a few other less-than-admirable qualities.

SixOfWands wrote:
Its so easy to pick on some random B-list celebrity, while ignoring the racism of the president you spend so much time supporting.

This is the "Give me an example" and then "Well, I don't like that example." Whether you consider Amber Heard to be an influencer or not, she has 65K Twitter followers who accidentally saw her little gaffe (apparently she'd meant to send it out on a different, private account).

SixOfWands wrote:
His statement that the crowd at the white nationalist rally in Charlottesville, Va., included “some very fine people.”

I'm going to tackle this one because it's gotten a lot of play in #WalkAway testimonials recently. I would urge everyone who believes this to watch the entire news conference where Trump made the "very fine people" statement. If you've only watched the clip or only watched from one angle, you've been lied to.

Reporters were shouting out questions, and Trump was responding to a question about people who were for or against removing Confederate monuments. As he was responding, another reporter shouted out a question about Neo-Nazis. Trump did not look at the second reporter, and there is no indication he even heard the question. Yet it has become accepted as gospel that he claimed there were "fine people" among the neo-Nazis. This tactic of shouting a question while Trump answers a different question worked great until Jim Acosta pushed it too far and everyone caught on.

SixOfWands wrote:
His dismissal of majority black nations as “sh1thole countries.”

First of all, there's some question as to whether he said this, but let's assume he did. You've decided it's because they're black -- not because they're cesspools of crime, corruption, and dysfunction? He didn't include Botswana in that category, I note. Nor the Dominican Republic. So maybe it's not because they were black-majority nations. Maybe because they were cesspools of crime, corruption, and dysfunction.

SixOfWands wrote:
His labeling an African-American member of Congress “low IQ.”

Please explain how this is racist unless you associate African-Americans with low IQs? I don't, and most people I know don't. We believe it is perfectly possible for someone to be stupid regardless of race, and perfectly possible for someone to be smart regardless of race.

Quite a few of the "racism" charges seem to be founded in the bigotry of low expectations -- the idea that one can't say anything negative about a black-majority country or a corrupt member of Congress simply because she's black. We should be past that by now, and we would be were it not for race profiteers.

As for Elizabeth Warren, I'm sure she was equally outraged when Harvard misrepresented her background and immediately asked them to desist . . . oh, wait . . . Anyway, she could help a lot of Central American kids with the $1M Trump offered her to take a DNA test.
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SixOfWands









  


Post  Tue, Jul 10 2018, 3:29 pm
Jeanette wrote:
I'm totally happy with the president's corruption, putting Putin above our allies, and his disastrous trade policies, because some librul mommies said mean things to me. Perfect logic!


Hey. The Tax Foundation* estimates that if the U.S. and retaliatory tariffs that Trump proposes are fully enacted, U.S. GDP would drop by $110 billion, wages for American workers would decrease 0.31%, and there would be a net decrease of 314,479 U.S. jobs. But Trump supporters here tell me that they're really good, so good enough for me.

* Which Wikipedia cites as "business-friendly or conservative."
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amother




Ginger


Post  Tue, Jul 10 2018, 3:31 pm
naturalmom5 wrote:
I really think that anyone who can't conduct themselves with a minimum of decorum and menslickeit should be banned from participating on political threads....

This is still Imamother... If you can't be a nice FRUM LADY first and foremost, regardless of your political views, this not the place for you...

I am going to rite to Yael about this...


I'm the amother who she addressed her comments to. Please don't report this or ban her. I wasn't hurt or insulted when she called me a snowflake. I am horrified when posters compare me to a KKK member or a Nazi because I support Trump. I think those posts have more reason to be reported.
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SixOfWands









  


Post  Tue, Jul 10 2018, 3:32 pm
Fox wrote:
Please explain how this is racist unless you associate African-Americans with low IQs? I don't, and most people I know don't. We believe it is perfectly possible for someone to be stupid regardless of race, and perfectly possible for someone to be smart regardless of race.

Quite a few of the "racism" charges seem to be founded in the bigotry of low expectations -- the idea that one can't say anything negative about a black-majority country or a corrupt member of Congress simply because she's black. We should be past that by now, and we would be were it not for race profiteers.

As for Elizabeth Warren, I'm sure she was equally outraged when Harvard misrepresented her background and immediately asked them to desist . . . oh, wait . . . Anyway, she could help a lot of Central American kids with the $1M Trump offered her to take a DNA test.


As Trump said, "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose voters." You prove that every time you defend him.
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Sadie









  


Post  Tue, Jul 10 2018, 3:32 pm
naturalmom5 wrote:
I really think that anyone who can't conduct themselves with a minimum of decorum and menslickeit should be banned from participating on political threads....

This is still Imamother... If you can't be a nice FRUM LADY first and foremost, regardless of your political views, this not the place for you...

I am going to rite to Yael about this...


I haven’t been responding to most of the pearl clutchers regarding my post because I thought it was blindingly clear that it was satire. Seriously, snowflake? Coloring book? This is the language of right wing posters on this very site, except I’m sure you don’t report it when it’s said by someone you agree with.

It’s also pretty ironic that you of all people are taking issue with this, seeing as you’re one of the most consistently mean and insulting posters on the site.
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Fox









  


Post  Tue, Jul 10 2018, 3:39 pm
Sadie wrote:
I’ll be as sarcastic as I like and you, as usual, can backpedal and softpedal as much as you like.

And here we have it: I responded at least somewhat politely with citations and explanations for my point of view. However, rather than a reasoned rebuttal or disagreement with anything I said, we have a snarky comment laced with a personal attack.

Which brings us back to what has become increasingly obvious: too many Trump opponents have little interest in any issue unless it can be used to embarrass or discredit Trump. They're not concerned about balancing the problem of family separation with the risk of s-x trafficking/slavery. They're interested in how the whole thing can be used to make Trump look bad. When that angle disappears, so does their interest.
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Fox









  


Post  Tue, Jul 10 2018, 3:40 pm
SixOfWands wrote:
As Trump said, "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose voters." You prove that every time you defend him.

Except, you're not actually refuting anything I've said . . .
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Fox









  


Post  Tue, Jul 10 2018, 3:44 pm
SixOfWands wrote:
Hey. The Tax Foundation* estimates that if the U.S. and retaliatory tariffs that Trump proposes are fully enacted, U.S. GDP would drop by $110 billion, wages for American workers would decrease 0.31%, and there would be a net decrease of 314,479 U.S. jobs. But Trump supporters here tell me that they're really good, so good enough for me.

Really? What Trump supporters have told you that all the proposed tariffs are "really good"? I recall a few general discussions about trade imbalances and uncertainty about tariffs, but I don't recall anyone assuring you that they were definitely "really good."
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Sadie









  


Post  Tue, Jul 10 2018, 3:56 pm
Fox wrote:
And here we have it: I responded at least somewhat politely with citations and explanations for my point of view. However, rather than a reasoned rebuttal or disagreement with anything I said, we have a snarky comment laced with a personal attack.

Which brings us back to what has become increasingly obvious: too many Trump opponents have little interest in any issue unless it can be used to embarrass or discredit Trump. They're not concerned about balancing the problem of family separation with the risk of s-x trafficking/slavery. They're interested in how the whole thing can be used to make Trump look bad. When that angle disappears, so does their interest.


You might be somewhat polite, but you’re still trolling. I’m not interested in getting dragged into your signature snare of links and irrelevant information. Here’s your rebuttal: in the past you said that opposition to family separation was liberal racism. Now you’re backpedaling and saying that it’s not racism, just naïveté.

I’m not going to dig up the post but you wrote that opposing family separation is the equivalent of saying “I don’t care about dark skinned or non Jewish children” who might be trafficked. That’s an accusation of racism. It’s also totally disingenuous, as are many of your intellectual exercises disguised as sincerely held beliefs.

You KNOW that the family separation policy had NOTHING to do with trafficking and was designed as a PUNISHMENT to deter future families from attempting to cross the border out of FEAR. You know that as well as you know anything. Claiming that the policy was based on trafficking is a lie! Stop it!

You KNOW that not a single person in any thread opposed separating children from their guardians *if it were in their own best interest on a case by case basis*. As unfortunately happens to all kinds of children *based on evidence of harm* in foster care every day. You know that, yet you persist.

And, despite your intense concern for trafficking victims, which I’m sure you truly and honestly believe that trump shares, you praised him when he ended the separation policy. If you love trump, you can always find a way for him to be right, even though he’s never been consistent on a single policy.

This is my last response to you, I’m not interested in debating someone who uses tricks and goalpost moving to win an argument. It’s nighttime here, so good night.
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PinkFridge









  


Post  Tue, Jul 10 2018, 4:00 pm
amother wrote:
No - it’s representative of the fact that both of those visuals stir up a lot of anger in people.


Which is different from saying that the two are morally equivalents.
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SixOfWands









  


Post  Tue, Jul 10 2018, 4:03 pm
Fox wrote:
Except, you're not actually refuting anything I've said . . .


Nor have you refuted anything I've said. You bring up irrelevancies, and dismiss Trump's racism and general nastiness with a wave of your hand.
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SixOfWands









  


Post  Tue, Jul 10 2018, 4:05 pm
Fox wrote:
Really? What Trump supporters have told you that all the proposed tariffs are "really good"? I recall a few general discussions about trade imbalances and uncertainty about tariffs, but I don't recall anyone assuring you that they were definitely "really good."


Gosh oh golly. I can't seem to recall what poster accused anyone who didn't support some of Trump's tariffs of being certifiably crazy. Needing to wear a tin foil hat. I mean, who could possibly be that nasty and obnoxious?

Fox wrote:
While Trump's tariffs on aluminum have resulted in modest increases in U.S. jobs and trade equity, they've had one unfortunate consequence: they've apparently made it more difficult to provide aluminum foil hats to those in need. Perhaps the WH should revisit this policy.
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Fox









  


Post  Tue, Jul 10 2018, 4:19 pm
Sadie wrote:
You might be somewhat polite, but you’re still trolling. I’m not interested in getting dragged into your signature snare of links and irrelevant information. Here’s your rebuttal: in the past you said that opposition to family separation was liberal racism. Now you’re backpedaling and saying that it’s not racism, just naïveté.

I’m not going to dig up the post but you wrote that opposing family separation is the equivalent of saying “I don’t care about dark skinned or non Jewish children” who might be trafficked. That’s an accusation of racism. It’s also totally disingenuous, as are many of your intellectual exercises disguised as sincerely held beliefs.

You KNOW that the family separation policy had NOTHING to do with trafficking and was designed as a PUNISHMENT to deter future families from attempting to cross the border out of FEAR. You know that as well as you know anything. Claiming that the policy was based on trafficking is a lie! Stop it!

You KNOW that not a single person in any thread opposed separating children from their guardians *if it were in their own best interest on a case by case basis*. As unfortunately happens to all kinds of children *based on evidence of harm* in foster care every day. You know that, yet you persist.

The post you're referring to was in response to a ridiculously facile and embarrassing letter from the OU that was being circulated by an Imamother.

Yes, to either advocate or oppose any policy based simply on emotion is wrong. In this case, it had clear racial and class overtones. How could Imamothers, who are rightly outraged when s-xual abuse occurs in our own communities, be so blase about the abuse of Central American women and children?

Are you aware that as many as 80 percent of women and girls are raped during their journey from Central America to the U.S.? Yet you want to cast anyone as a villain who sees illegal immigration as a problem?

Actually, I was very careful not to say that the policy was based entirely on the problem of trafficking. I referred to VP Biden's activities to discourage illegal immigration as well as some of the other things tried during the Obama administration. But you are choosing not to remember any of those posts because they would contradict your assertion that I'm a liar.

Sadie wrote:
And, despite your intense concern for trafficking victims, which I’m sure you truly and honestly believe that trump shares, you praised him when he ended the separation policy. If you love trump, you can always find a way for him to be right, even though he’s never been consistent on a single policy.

I'm not sure what you mean here. Everyone was against small children being separated from people who could prove to be their parents. Trump had already put in a request for money for family housing for detainees. But that's such a tiny percentage of the problem, who could oppose it? It doesn't solve the larger problem.
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Fox









  


Post  Tue, Jul 10 2018, 4:20 pm
SixOfWands wrote:
Nor have you refuted anything I've said. You bring up irrelevancies, and dismiss Trump's racism and general nastiness with a wave of your hand.

No, I actually spoke to several of your examples either with logic or evidence.
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amother




Burgundy


Post  Tue, Jul 10 2018, 4:23 pm
PinkFridge wrote:
Which is different from saying that the two are morally equivalents.


After reading more from what that poster (who made the KKK post) - I really am lost to what her actual intent was.

But as a matter of trying to explain to someone how much hatred (and as a result bad behavior) there is lobbied at Trump champions - I thought the KKK reference was actually a good one.
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