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Understanding how to legally not pay for assisted living
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amother




Forestgreen


Post  Wed, Jul 11 2018, 1:01 pm
Does anyone have a clear understanding of the process of how someone with assets and money can give everything away so they are poor and now qualify for insurance for assisted living?
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amother




cornflower


Post  Wed, Jul 11 2018, 1:04 pm
amother wrote:
Does anyone have a clear understanding of the process of how someone with assets and money can give everything away so they are poor and now qualify for insurance for assisted living?


People you pay called lawyers.
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mha3484









  


Post  Wed, Jul 11 2018, 1:05 pm
You need an eldercare attorney for this. It is extremely complicated.
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kollel wife









  


Post  Wed, Jul 11 2018, 1:09 pm
I'm not super knowledgeable but to be eligible for Adult medicaid, you have give away your assets and then wait 5 years, or you're penalized. The 'patient' must keep a very low bank balance every month.

To be eligible for senior Medicaid the 'patient' must need assistance with daily living, bathing, dressing, eating, taking medicine, something like that. I believe you can make a trust of some sort, where the patient no longer has his money, but gets an income from the trust - as long as the income doesn't exceed the income guidelines. The social security income must fall within certain guidelines as well.

I'm not familiar with assisted living, but it can be covered by Medicaid, after the 'patients' social security is used towards the fee as well.

I would tell you to contact the number below. They were very helpful to us in the past. (I hope this phone # etc. is current, I got it from the internet.)

Medicaid Solutions
Address: 910 E County Line Rd #103d, Lakewood, NJ 08701
Phone: (732) 901-6446
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amother




Tangerine


Post  Wed, Jul 11 2018, 1:09 pm
In our experience, there was no Medicare or Medicaid coverage for assisted living (nursing care, if any, is separate). Medicaid varies from state to state, so your experience may vary. I have no experience with private insurance for assisted living, so I can't help you there.

If you want to qualify for Medicaid for a nursing home (not the same thing as assisted living), speak to an elder care attorney in your state for advice.
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pesek zman









  


Post  Wed, Jul 11 2018, 1:13 pm
amother wrote:
In our experience, there was no Medicare or Medicaid coverage for assisted living (nursing care, if any, is separate). Medicaid varies from state to state, so your experience may vary. I have no experience with private insurance for assisted living, so I can't help you there.

If you want to qualify for Medicaid for a nursing home (not the same thing as assisted living), speak to an elder care attorney in your state for advice.


This exactly. Assisted living is always private pay.

Are you asking about nursing home, or assisted living?
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amother




Forestgreen


Post  Wed, Jul 11 2018, 1:23 pm
pesek zman wrote:
This exactly. Assisted living is always private pay.

Are you asking about nursing home, or assisted living?



Nursing home.
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pesek zman









  


Post  Wed, Jul 11 2018, 1:25 pm
amother wrote:
Nursing home.


Best to change the title and get more focused response
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amother




cornflower


Post  Wed, Jul 11 2018, 1:27 pm
pesek zman wrote:
Best to change the title and get more focused response


Like: How can a person of means legally become a ward of the state?
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amother




Copper


Post  Wed, Jul 11 2018, 1:30 pm
amother wrote:
Like: How can a person of means legally become a ward of the state?


By putting their assets in a trust, but you really need to consult with a lawyer/
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lkwdlady









  


Post  Wed, Jul 11 2018, 1:30 pm
There are some Frum organizations that help with this. Each state has different laws. Which state are you inquiring about?
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amother




cornflower


Post  Wed, Jul 11 2018, 1:34 pm
amother wrote:
By putting their assets in a trust, but you really need to consult with a lawyer/


Yes - that was my first comment on this thread.

I'm all for estate planning - but only in so much as it means paying less tax. Not so much as it means taking benefits created for people who truly don't have means.

Just throwing in my unsolicited opinion - because honestly - I'm shocked that this question is being asked openly.

#Squishyisn'tloggedinshe'dbealloverthis
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pesek zman









  


Post  Wed, Jul 11 2018, 1:49 pm
amother wrote:
Like: How can a person of means legally become a ward of the state?


Respectfully you're using a lot of incorrect terminology

A ward of the state?

You're asking how a rich person can get Medicaid. Medicaid doesn't make you a ward of the state
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amother




Tangerine


Post  Wed, Jul 11 2018, 1:51 pm
amother wrote:
Like: How can a person of means legally become a ward of the state?


Let's start with some basics:

"Ward of the state" is something totally different.

Medicare is a program for the elderly and disabled. It covers some rehab (post-hospital) but not permanent long term care. It is the same from state to state.

Medicaid is a program that can pay for long term care (among other things) for impoverished people. It is administered at the state level and varies from state to state. I agree with the above poster that people should not try to take what they are not entitled to, but it is perfectly fine (IMO) for someone to consult with experts to help with making good financial decisions within the context of the rules of the programs. "Spending down" takes years, and may be part of an older or infirm person's financial planning. I think this is what you are asking about.

"Assisted living" sounds like it should refer to a nursing home, but there are specific definitions for all of these words, and it doesn't.

I don't have time to find a good link for you with an intro to elder care planning, but maybe someone else will be able to help.

Edited for clarity.
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amother




Ginger


Post  Wed, Jul 11 2018, 2:02 pm
My parents are poor and miserably in debt, living in an apartment literally crawling with enormous roaches and mice, and they are going to be reliant on us when they need help in a few years. Me and my brother are scrambling to pull things together so that we can keep our families' heads above water, and scraping together bit by bit so we'll be able to care for them too.

There are plenty of people in worse situations, often without family to care for them.


These services were created to help the poor, and they're strained and over-burdened as it is. There is never enough to go around.


If you go ahead with your plan, you will be stealing food out of someone's mouth, and a roof from above their head.

I beg of you, sister to sister: don't do it.
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Chayalle









  


Post  Wed, Jul 11 2018, 2:03 pm
I've heard of people who put their assets in a trust. Or take their name of of assets, and leave it only in spouse's name, and then spouse has to say they are not giving them those assets.....something like that.

Best to speak to a lawyer who specializes in this.
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amother




Taupe


Post  Wed, Jul 11 2018, 2:19 pm
amother wrote:
My parents are poor and miserably in debt, living in an apartment literally crawling with enormous roaches and mice, and they are going to be reliant on us when they need help in a few years. Me and my brother are scrambling to pull things together so that we can keep our families' heads above water, and scraping together bit by bit so we'll be able to care for them too.

There are plenty of people in worse situations, often without family to care for them.


These services were created to help the poor, and they're strained and over-burdened as it is. There is never enough to go around.


If you go ahead with your plan, you will be stealing food out of someone's mouth, and a roof from above their head.

I beg of you, sister to sister: don't do it.


I'm sorry for you parents situation. It's really not clear why you aren't taking advantage of whatever assistance is available.
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amother




cornflower


Post  Wed, Jul 11 2018, 3:26 pm
pesek zman wrote:
Respectfully you're using a lot of incorrect terminology

A ward of the state?

You're asking how a rich person can get Medicaid. Medicaid doesn't make you a ward of the state


I was being glib - which I recognize doesn't translate well.

What OP appears to be asking is how can my elderly relative move around money to qualify for a social benefit that he otherwise wouldn't be entitled to.

She is looking for the relative to be in a nursing home to be provided with care which he doesn't need to pay for - because he doesn't have any money to his name. Which is basically another way of saying 'hey federal government take care of me - I have nothing'... the law here (I'm guessing) seems to require that this service is to be provided (by the state) - because the adult has lost the ability to care from himself - because care requires money - and he has none. (now of course the nursing home is still a private enterprise - the 'state' isn't actually running it, just funding it).
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amother




Dodgerblue


Post  Wed, Jul 11 2018, 3:34 pm
We put most of my parents' assets in a trust a number of years ago. What this means is that once they've used up the balance (and after we're penalized for any funds they spent which we can't document) they can have Medicaid pay for them to be in a nursing home.

The rest of the trust can allow us to pay for a private aide for a few years, we hope. Because we don't want them languishing there, waiting hours for a diaper to be changed etc. At least with a private aide there will be some better level of care.

I don't think there is anything wrong with this.

Note that in order to take money out of the trust it must be paid to me or one of my silbings as trustees, on which we pay taxes.
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amother




cornflower


Post  Wed, Jul 11 2018, 3:43 pm
amother wrote:
We put most of my parents' assets in a trust a number of years ago. What this means is that once they've used up the balance (and after we're penalized for any funds they spent which we can't document) they can have Medicaid pay for them to be in a nursing home.

The rest of the trust can allow us to pay for a private aide for a few years, we hope. Because we don't want them languishing there, waiting hours for a diaper to be changed etc. At least with a private aide there will be some better level of care.

I don't think there is anything wrong with this.

Note that in order to take money out of the trust it must be paid to me or one of my silbings as trustees, on which we pay taxes.


I'm idealistic I guess.

My preference would be that every senior would be entitled to Medicaid - not just the ones who qualify by being under some financial bright line or the ones with enough seichel to arrange their affairs to suggest that they are under the financial bright line.

The realist in me knows that for many people - there isn't enough in the bank to get the quality or quantity of care they want - so moving around assets makes sense.
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