source for accept truth from wherever it comes

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Source for accept truth from wherever it comes

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amother

Slategray

Mon, Jul 23 2018, 1:25 pm

I sometimes see people use the phrase accept truth from wherever it comes from

Does anyone know

(1)where if anywhere do Chazal say it?

(2)how is it to be applied? Who is the arbitrator of truth to decide that truth is coming from a particular controversial source?

The way I see it frequently used looks like the way secular Jewish groups claim to base their agenda on "Jewish values". They take any position (usually far left liberal ), claim it is a part of Jewish values and viola they are now standing up for "Jewish values"

PinkFridge

Mon, Jul 23 2018, 1:34 pm

Interesting. No real idea but this calls to mind Acher, and how his talmid was able to glean from him (Acher) what he could, though with the "don't try this trick at home kids" rider, tocho achal uklipaso zarak.

Of course, there's also Pirkei Avos, who is wise, who learns from everyone, and the pasuk, mikol melamdi hiskalti. There's the connection of humility to be able to learn because you never know where the knowledge will come from.

Hope this gets the converstation rolling.

I'm leaving aside the last paragraph, which is a different thing, and that is distorting to fit one's agenda.

simba

Mon, Jul 23 2018, 1:34 pm

I am not sure what phrase you are referring to. The 13 ilarim tell is to accept the Torah as truth. Is that your question?

pause

Mon, Jul 23 2018, 1:36 pm

The Rambam said it in his hakdama to meseches avos."
(קבל את האמת ממי שאמרה" (הקדמה למסכת אבות

amother

Slategray

Mon, Jul 23 2018, 1:47 pm

simba wrote:

I am not sure what phrase you are referring to. The 13 ilarim tell is to accept the Torah as truth. Is that your question?

No.

I'm also not sure what phrase I'm referring to (thank you pause for giving me a source)

I'm questioning it's application for people who aren't on the Rambam's level of capability of discerning truth and falsehood

PinkFridge

Mon, Jul 23 2018, 2:00 pm

amother wrote:

So these people are saying, well, you might disagree with us but if you have integrity you'll accept truth wherever it comes from?
In which I would say, possibly, but it's not coming from distortions and from people who may not know what they don't know.

amother

Firebrick

Mon, Jul 23 2018, 2:01 pm

amother wrote:

The Rambam wasn't writing for other Rambams (except in the Moreh Nevuchim). He was writing for ordinary people. He studied the science and philosophy of his day, because there was knowledge to be gained. That's what he thought people should do. He saw the pursuit of truth as the way to become closer to Hashem. (Chassidim might call it being mekeadesh the chol.)

Twisting a phrase to meet your agenda happens on both the right and left. That's life. We have to develop our own powers of discernment to avoid simplistic slogans.

iyar

Mon, Jul 23 2018, 2:08 pm

amother wrote:

Exactly. That’s the problem. The Rambam says “accept the Emmes from whoever says it”.
You have to trust yourself to be on a level where you know the Emmes when you hear it.
If your thoughts are firmly anchored in Torah like the Rambam you can do that.
If you have other influences and biases then it’s not simple at all.
I guess for most of us “aseh lecha rav” might be more practical.
Interesting that just yesterday Tisha B’Av in kriyas HaTorah we read about the terrible punishments that resulted from people who went “be’shrirus libam”, following their hearts and depending on their own perceived wisdom.

imasoftov

Tue, Jul 24 2018, 7:42 am

pause wrote:

The Rambam said it in his hakdama to meseches avos."
(קבל את האמת ממי שאמרה" (הקדמה למסכת אבות

Here's a link to that. This version says "ושמע האמת ממי שאמרו", but neither version is wrong, Rambam wrote his commentary to the Mishnah in Judeo-Arabic, so translations will differ. About the gender of אמת, I looked in two dictionaries, both said it's feminine.

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