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Forum -> Judaism -> Halachic Questions and Discussions
Coming to Shul to talk
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Leriem




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 27 2018, 5:47 pm
Mommyg8 wrote:
What a nice way to welcome someone <sarcasm>. OP, welcome to imamother and ignore the nasty comments.

I think brown had a hard day and she's letting it out on you.


Thanks so much. šŸ˜Š yes, itā€™s not a great feeling when people make sarcastic, insulting or unhelpful comments...just makes me wonder about them...what do they get out of it?
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Leriem




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 27 2018, 5:48 pm
etky wrote:
Is there a vatikin minyan you can attend or a quieter area of the womens section where you can sit and isolate yourself from the talkers?


That early time doesnā€™t work for me...
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Leriem




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 27 2018, 5:49 pm
amother wrote:
Do we all have only one thing in our lives that bothers us? So what if OP is running several threads on pet peeves? Isn't Imamother the "safe space" for women to vent? If it serves to make people think twice about certain annoying things they do, then that's got be a win-win for everyone!


Thank you. Why would it bother someone if I started several threads???
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Leriem




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 27 2018, 5:51 pm
EmpireState wrote:
I have found that staring at the offending talkers works. Other than that, can you approach your shul Rabbi after services and ask him to approach these women?
As far as scare tactics (that others' prayers don't count when people talk), I would keep that to yourself.
Good luck. Sorry that some anonymous amothers called you out on your venting. Not too nice...


Thanks very much for the nice words. I did speak to the rabbi and he made a couple of general speeches about talking but it didnā€™t help. I know there are some Shuls with zero tolerance rules for talking, the Gabbai will go straight over to the talkers and make them stop, but I havenā€™t found such a Shul. Iā€™m just puzzled why people come if they donā€™t daven. Itā€™s not meant to be a social event.
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Leriem




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 27 2018, 5:53 pm
amother wrote:
I hear you Op and have a similar situation.
I sit in a spot not near the talking.
I tell myself they don't know better, are doing the best they can, and its not my business and they certainly don't want mussar. You said your rabbi already tried.
I take it as a challenge to concentrate harder on my tefilos to block it out.
I do move seats when necessary though I try to be very unobtrusive about it.
vahavta leracha kamocha - I take it as a message to strengthen my ahavas chinam when mightily or slightly irritated.
Though I sometimes daven at home much prefer to daven in shul for many reasons.
I do make it clear that I don't answer when chatted to with a smile and shrug and have said at different times when possible as warmly as possible "lets talk after at the kiddish"
people don't mind at all and are happy to do it
just set an example
and do your best

we can only control and work on ourselves
.
hatzlocha


Thanks very much. Youā€™re wise and gave me a lot to think about.
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Leriem




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 27 2018, 5:54 pm
amother wrote:
U are being so nasty to op, this is why some ppl like to post anonymously which im doing and clearly u did.

Also talking in shul is a big aveira.


Thank you. I think the next topic I will bring up will be, ā€œWhy are some people here so nasty to new members?ā€ Maybe I should have joined during the three weeks instead.
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Leriem




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 27 2018, 5:55 pm
pause wrote:
I reported posts which use the amother feature to attack someone.

OP is new here. Give her a chance. She's posting using her screen name so you can PM her if you are sincere.

I hope Yael takes action against posters who abuse the amother feature. It's gotten way too out of hand, and there must be repercussions for anonymous bullies.


Thank you very much.
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Leriem




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 27 2018, 5:58 pm
perquacky wrote:
This has been a problem in almost every shul I've davened in. When I was a kid, our shul had "shushers," people who would walk around shushing the talkers. In my current shul, in an attempt to keep the volume down, our rabbi has ruled that there are certain parts of the davening in which absolutely no talking is allowed. Kriyat hatorah, kaddish, and the tefilot for Medinat Yisrael. It seems to be working. I think the goal is to extend the no-talking times until the entire davening is silent.

What actually bugs me more are the women who come to shul and sit outside to talk. They never go into the building at all. I do think that shul should be a social experience as well as a religious and emotional one, but why bother coming to shul at all if you're not going to daven even one bit? And these women do not have small children they need to watch.


Actually I think itā€™s commendable that at least they are considerate and proper enough not to go inside to talk! In my Shul they come in, sit down in middle of the Shul and proceed to talk the whole time so no one can avoid being disturbed by them. I wish theyā€™d at least sit in back.
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Leriem




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Jul 28 2018, 11:51 pm
amother wrote:
Start a quiet minyan of your own.


And which woman will lein? LOL
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Leriem




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Jul 28 2018, 11:52 pm
amother wrote:
[Anon attack deleted. This is abuse of the amother feature. - Watergirl as a mod]


What does this mean? Forgive my ignorance, Iā€™m new to this.
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Leriem




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Jul 28 2018, 11:55 pm
ra_mom wrote:
His name must be Yosef Mizrahi. And he must have gotten direct ruach hakodesh straight from the source.


I truly hope you do not mean to malign RABBI Mizrachi. Or any rabbi for that matter.
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Leriem




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Jul 28 2018, 11:57 pm
EmpireState wrote:
I have found that staring at the offending talkers works. Other than that, can you approach your shul Rabbi after services and ask him to approach these women?
As far as scare tactics (that others' prayers don't count when people talk), I would keep that to yourself.
Good luck. Sorry that some anonymous amothers called you out on your venting. Not too nice...


Thank you for saying that. I donā€™t know what to make of some of the women here who make vicious and sarcastic remarks in response to other peopleā€™s posts. Is that typical here?
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Leriem




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Jul 28 2018, 11:59 pm
watergirl wrote:
I edited anon bullying. Thanks.


You mean you are able to edit other peopleā€™s posts?
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amother
Aquamarine


 

Post Sun, Jul 29 2018, 12:03 am
I'd say that if you really believe that hashem doesn't accept the tefilos of a person davening in a shul where others are talking, it is probably best to daven ar home and not take the chance of going to shul while someone might be talking and having your tefilos wasted.
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amother
Violet


 

Post Sun, Jul 29 2018, 12:04 am
Leriem wrote:
You mean you are able to edit other peopleā€™s posts?


She's a moderator.
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Leriem




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jul 29 2018, 12:07 am
amother wrote:
She's a moderator.


Oh thanks for clearing that up. Iā€™m still unsure as to how this whole site works. So thereā€™s a moderator on each thread??
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amother
Honeydew


 

Post Sun, Jul 29 2018, 12:14 am
Leriem wrote:
What does this mean? Forgive my ignorance, Iā€™m new to this.


It means that the moderator deleted my post.

Let me offer by way of apology /teshuva

1. This article

http://rechovot.blogspot.com/2.....l?m=1

Don't be fooled by the title. It has things to help you on your campaign. The idea it is better to focus on creating a positive davening atmosphere

2. On the other hand I saw on YWM an advertisement for a no talking on shul day on August. Check it out

3. A brocho for success in all your holy endeavors that you should bring yourself and others closer to Hashem
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amother
Blush


 

Post Sun, Jul 29 2018, 12:35 am
This novel: https://www.judaicapress.com/p.....alarm by M.C. Millman is chock full of references and eitzos to deal with talking in shul. Just reread it on Shabbos Smile
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Mommyg8




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jul 29 2018, 12:46 am
amother wrote:
There's no way this is true.


"One who talks during Chazaras HaShatz is a sinner, and this sin is too great for any individual to bear (This is the one and only place the Shulchan Aruch uses such language regarding not keeping a Halacha. The reason for this is that just as when Kayin killed Hevel he virtually killed half of the world and Hashem told him that his sin is too great to bear, so too one who talks during davening is not only harming himself, but he/she is harming their children and all the other people in the Tzibbur, as when there is talking in Shul it causes the Shechinah to leave, and causes the tefilos of the entire shul to not be ā€œheard andā€ accepted by Hashem. Based on Tosefos Yom Tov, Sefer HaGan Derech Moshe, Igeres HaKodesh of MaHarDaB of Lubavitch and other commentaries)"
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Mommyg8




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jul 29 2018, 1:00 am
And this:

"The Shulchan Aruch (OC 124:7) discusses the terrible Aveira of talking during Shmoneh Esreh. Indeed, it is the only place in Shulchan Aruch where Rav Karo uses the expression, ā€œ vā€™gadol avono minso ā€” his sin is too great to carry.ā€ It would seem that Rav Karo employed the language used by Rabbeinu Yona in his Igeres HaTeshuvah ( section 6). The Mishna Bururah (124:27) cites the Eliyahu Rabbah that a number of shuls ended up being destroyed on account of this violation.
The Tefilah of the Tosfos Yom Tov was composed during the Chmelnieki Massacres 1648-1649 (Gzeiras Tach vā€™tat) where some 300,000 Jews were murdered by Cossacks under his leadership. The Chida explains that it was revealed to the Tosfos Yom Tov from Heaven that the talking was the cause of the terrible tragedy. "
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