Is this Yiddishkeit?

amother

Lawngreen

Sun, Jul 29 2018, 6:02 pm

NovelConcept wrote:

I was waiting for you to chime in. Because the only other one who ever has anything as anti-chasidishe to bring to a thread is you, naturalmom5. And again, as you mentioned elsewhere, you have bitterness towards the chasidishe community as well, because you couldn't fit into it.

I'm not blaming you for feeling hurt. Pain is a normal human emotion. But don't turn your pain into an attack on an entire community of people which is comprised of thousands of individuals with their own thoughts and feelings, just like your own.

I'll chime in too and I'm with Maya and naturalmom5! And please leave the ad hominem attacks out of the thread.

Plenty of us here are not turning our hurt into bitterness, we are turning it into reaching out to others in similar situation and lending a helping hand. We are showing the ones still in pain that they aren't alone and that yiddishkeit can thrive wonderfully and beautifully without all these oppressive chumros being placed upon them. There's no need for them to live in the pain and discomfort, and there's no reason for them to continue looking at yiddishkeit in a negative light. A person can be a wonderful ehrliche frum yid without all it, and we are passively encouraging them to find a place of happiness to truly enjoy the beauty of Judaism.

If a lifestyle of many chumros works for you, that's beautiful. But you have to acknowledge that we are all different and we experience things differently. Just because you find peace and happiness in it, it doesn't mean everyone else does. Disparaging and lashing out at anyone who thinks differently than you, doesn't serve anyone well.

naturalmom5

Sun, Jul 29 2018, 6:55 pm

amother wrote:

Yael ... can you install a like*1000 button...

NovelConcept

Sun, Jul 29 2018, 7:26 pm

amother wrote:

Lawngreen, again, you too are looking at things with tunnel vision. You are perceiving things through your own biases.

If you read my postings, you see that I didn't mention anything about chumros at all. I only wrote about not attacking chasidim. I didn't write a single word about whether or not I agree with what was written.

I only wrote that you can't paint all chasidism black (even if they wear a lot of black! Smile

)

Somehow, you twisted that around to say I am lashing out. Go back and read. I wasn't the one who lashed out at any segment of society for their chumros or lack of.

amother

Lawngreen

Sun, Jul 29 2018, 7:37 pm

NovelConcept wrote:

)

Somehow, you twisted that around to say I am lashing out. Go back and read. I wasn't the one who lashed out at any segment of society for their chumros or lack of.

Well, no one was attacking Chassidim, (as Maya has already expressed to you). The attacks were only levied against the chumros that are continuing to be imposed. You are the one who seems to be interpreting it as an attack against Chassidim. Neither Maya, nor I, (and I assume that naturalmom5 too), had that intention in mind.

And when you launch ad hominem attacks, it is considered to be lashing out. Don't attack the person, attack the message if you so wish.

OutATowner

Sun, Jul 29 2018, 7:45 pm

Maya wrote:

It is absolutely our place to judge and to speak up about how wrong this is. This is why ultra orthodox leaders are able to behave like dictators and run their organizations with terror tactics. Because everyone else politely says “don’t judge.”

We’ll judge someone who is less frum than us from here till tomorrow, but when repressed and abusive practices are implemented in the name of religion, suddenly we “don’t judge.”

Pathetic hypocrisy.

I didn't read the rest of the thread yet, but I wanted to respond to this. While I have what to work on, I do not judge from those less frum than I am. I have learned a lot from many women I know, including completely secular, ultra chasidish, and in between. I happen to interact more with the former, and I hold them in high esteem for who they are.

Maya

Sun, Jul 29 2018, 7:48 pm

OutATowner wrote:

I didn't read the rest of the thread yet, but I wanted to respond to respond to this. While I have what to work on, I do not judge from those less frum than I am. I have learned a lot from many women I know, including completely secular, ultra chasidish, and in between. I happen to interact more with the former, and I hold them in high esteem for who they are.

My comment wasn’t about you personally. I apologize if it came across that way. I meant us, collectively, as a frum community.

amother

Coffee

Sun, Jul 29 2018, 8:40 pm

Anon here like all williamsburger annnons. I have no bitterness, I will continue being a chusid and proud. I am against heavy eye makeup for instance. You all understand these are the rules for newspapers and other free booklets for KJ only. It is not rules for the houses. I heard about it shabbes and dont know what to make out of it. Some make sense. The banning of media symbols is great, stop promoting the smart phone. It irked me to see www on ads while smart phones were a nono . Certain things are a little "not for me". KJ was one of 4 choices for my retirement.... not so sure if I still want to. My husband would maybe STILL be comfortable but I get the feeling I will be the shiksa of the place. And what I realIy fear is that these rules and many more unspoken norms will make me upset.

amother

Coffee

Sun, Jul 29 2018, 8:54 pm

zaq wrote:

I, too, doubt that it’s a joke though I fervently hope it is. Even KY must have its members who are considered extremists by their neighbors. The birthday cake ban makes complete sense for a group that seeks to be as different as possible from secular society and will ban a style of eyeglasses because it’s too much in fashion. Birthday cake is, after all, not an authentic Jewish custom. (Not that all Jewish or even Chassidish customs have authentic Jewish roots.)

Again they are just banning the advertisements of birthday cake. They cannot possibly ban make up people use lots of make up in KJ, they are banning from papers and free shopping guides.
Could they please ban the words ferragamo oscar de la renta burburry gucci kate spade brooks brothers any many more I never heard of until my daughter started receiving gifts as a kallah from her KJ machatenesta ? The words that put their households in bankrupcy. Mad

. Can someone remind me that brand name purse every kallah MUST receive? If my mechateneste would know I dont even rememeber the company. VEY!
I just googled I think it was....
Editing to add St Johns knitts

amother

Coffee

Mon, Jul 30 2018, 7:37 am

chmom wrote:

While I absolutely agree with the premise of „ to each his own“ I also believe that there are red lines where basic human rights are being breached and I truly think that in those cases we have the duty to speak up.
I don’t think that religious freedom supersedes basic human rights

Not sure about that , if it became too strickt, this is not a cult that forces they stay in the neighborghood...because they can move .

chmom

Mon, Jul 30 2018, 8:46 am

amother wrote:

Not sure about that , if it became too strickt, this is not a cult that forces they stay in the neighborghood...because they can move .

Well, if people are kept in a very insular environment, basically denied education ,as well as are ostracized if they dare to take even one step off the straight and narrow in my books that pretty much prevents most people from leaving

zaq

Mon, Jul 30 2018, 10:41 am

amother wrote:

Again they are just banning the advertisements of birthday cake. They cannot possibly ban make up people use lots of make up in KJ, they are banning from papers and free shopping guides.

So if bday cakes are ok, why ban the ads? It’s just bday cakes, apparently, not all junk food or all cakes, so it’s not in the interest of public health like the ban on ads for liquor and tobacco products in children’s publications.

if makeup is ok, why ban ads for it? And do you really think that once they ban ads for makeup they won’t eventually ban the makeup as well?

ShishKabob

Mon, Jul 30 2018, 11:36 am

Maya wrote:

So you think it was an exaggeration. Okay. We’re all entitled to our opinions.

I've come to the conclusion after reading many of your posts is that people that didn't go thru your experience, can't ever understand you.
You will come across as bitter, racist, non-sensical and so on.
However, I truly believe that you are probably right in what you are saying, it's just so foreign to a lot of people that have never been in your position, that it seems mega unlikely.

That being said, we always have to be "dan L'kaf zchus", no matter, more frum or less frum.

And I think it probably is a joke, I doubt this has any rabbinical backing.

Mommyg8

Mon, Jul 30 2018, 11:45 am

Maya wrote:

It is absolutely our place to judge and to speak up about how wrong this is. This is why orthodox leaders are able to behave like dictators and run their organizations with terror tactics. Because everyone else politely says “don’t judge.”

We’ll judge someone who is less frum than us from here till tomorrow, but when repressed and abusive practices are implemented in the name of religion, suddenly we “don’t judge.”

Pathetic hypocrisy.

Those are very strong words, Maya, but ok, I'll believe you.

On the plus side, though, everyone gets into school, everyone gets help (tzedakah) as needed, and the level of frumkeit (for those who care about those things) remain consistent.

These are all things which do not necessarily exist in other communities.

Mommyg8

Mon, Jul 30 2018, 11:49 am

zaq wrote:

Because it's easier to control whats printed than to control what goes on in people's private homes.

You would have to ask Maya, but I'm assuming the people who wrote this (and I highly doubt it's a joke) are not the Rabbanim or the Rebbe. My understanding is that it's just random people who are writing this, and the people in power are not necessarily the spiritual leaders.

flowerpower

Mon, Jul 30 2018, 12:02 pm

chmom wrote:

Nah. I know many that moved awAy. No one prevents them from leaving. I also know some that moved there for the cheap housing so obviously some don’t mind such a lifestyle.

amother

Lavender

Mon, Jul 30 2018, 12:20 pm

amother wrote:

Again they are just banning the advertisements of birthday cake. They cannot possibly ban make up people use lots of make up in KJ, they are banning from papers and free shopping guides.

What is the message of banning a birthday cake from advertising? What else as an outsider am I supposed to understand from that other than - the 'powers that be' don't want people to purchase birthday cakes / bakers to sell birthday cakes. (I'm wondering now if this is a reaction to the not so new trend of very beautiful and very expensive fondant covered cakes)

SixOfWands

Mon, Jul 30 2018, 12:24 pm

amother wrote:

Well, very clearly whomever created the list doesn't want you purchasing -- or baking -- a birthday cake or birthday presents, as both are referred to as "non jewish."

Is anyone familiar with a halachic basis for banning the celebration of birthdays?