Depiction of angels, avos, imahos, etc in frum entertainment

amother

Natural

Tue, Aug 07 2018, 10:01 am

Anyone else disturbed by the depiction of angels? I know it's only a music video and it's kids and stuff, but we don't know exactly what angels look like, and the little we do know, they don't look like that.

I guess it shouldn't bother me anymore than the depiction of Avraham Avinu in children's books, but still. I don't know why, watching this just gave me the wrong taste in my mouth.

dancingqueen

Tue, Aug 07 2018, 10:06 am

Ha I thought that was cute. I’m just curious who the audience is for that song/video.

amother

Indigo

Tue, Aug 07 2018, 11:10 am

My mother used to make fun of the parsha coloring books where Moshe Rabbeinu was drawn with a streimel and Yisro with a bent down hat...

amother

Indigo

Tue, Aug 07 2018, 11:14 am

I love the angels. It's clearly trying to depict an idea and I would actually show my children as it could help them understand the reality of this abstract concept. In no way does it insinuate that THESE are the angels.

amother

Indigo

Tue, Aug 07 2018, 11:25 am

I have more of an issue with men in tallis and teffillin pretending to daven and dance for cameras. I find it jarring not sure why. Let me go take a nap ill figure out this mighty issue when I'm better rested...zzz

PinkFridge

Tue, Aug 07 2018, 12:34 pm

amother wrote:

I didn't watch the whole thing, but the malachim as children come across as very pure and innocent.
The reason I quoted this post is because I really, really, really don't get the whole video thing. Yeah, MTV has been around for what, 40 years already? so of course it trickled down to us. But I'm just not into it.

imorethanamother

Tue, Aug 07 2018, 12:35 pm

amother wrote:

We read a lot from Tell Me A Story On The Parsha or whatever that book is called, and the problem is they don't show anyone's face. So Avraham, Yitzchak, Yaakov, Moshe, Aharon, the Shevatim, and Yosef all look exactly the same. It's super confusing to a kid, because they can't always follow. Same with the women - not that they show any. So my daughters don't have any images or stories to look up to, but that's another post.

So I actually appreciate it when there's a cartoon image, because kids KNOW it's not what they look like, but it gives them some kind of placeholder in their heads. Does that make sense?

imasoftov

Tue, Aug 07 2018, 12:50 pm

I'm not bothered by the angels, but I am by the bananas in the fridge.

PinkFridge

Tue, Aug 07 2018, 1:11 pm

imasoftov wrote:

I'm not bothered by the angels, but I am by the bananas in the fridge.

Maybe I will go back and watch it.

dancingqueen

Tue, Aug 07 2018, 1:21 pm

PinkFridge wrote:

Just curious what do you not get? But I do wonder who the audience is because the pronunciations and the singer seem chassidish and I didn’t think that crowd watched videos.

NovelConcept

Tue, Aug 07 2018, 1:24 pm

I'm not bothered by the children representing malachim, because as we know, the cheruvim had faces of children. But the white clothing and fluttery wings seem very Xtian in concept. Truth is, the whole video bothers me. I don't mind when an erliche modern orthodox guy makes a music video, because it's okay in his upbringing. But a chasidishe guy with a biber hat was clearly not raised this way. I see the whole video as capturing the sad state of the world today.

PinkFridge

Tue, Aug 07 2018, 2:01 pm

I don't get the whole phenomenon of videos.
Did Shlomo Carlebach do videos?
I rest my case ;-D

Seriously, ok, I'm a dinosaur, I don't get how it adds to a song. If a song is really a great song, it's not the visuals that make it great.

amother

Indigo

Tue, Aug 07 2018, 3:05 pm

PinkFridge wrote:

Ok now you're on to a whooole nother issue...
Music has gotten so lacking they NEED these clips to distract you!

Ruchel

Tue, Aug 07 2018, 3:53 pm

Kids associate with what they know, hence the bent down hats or wtv

rgr

Tue, Aug 07 2018, 4:08 pm

amother wrote:

This, and the sefer torah.
It desensitizes the kedusha

bigsis144

Tue, Aug 07 2018, 5:16 pm

PinkFridge wrote:

As a dancer, choreographer, fan of musicals and occasional filmmaker, I will say that there are some music videos that are truly works of art.

But it’s a different medium than a purely audio song, and the two are not interchangeable. Just like a ballet is not the same as a symphony.

Sometimes a piece of music really can be elevated by the right visual accompaniment, and there are some songs I only really fell in love with after I had images to give me a deeper emotional connection.

For a really personal and perhaps silly example, I much prefer the Lavonafilm/Bais Purim 2018 video to the official Mordechai Shapiro video for “Machar”. The joy and “never give up!!” feeling rolling off a video made by a bunch of bochurim doing parkour through the streets of Neve Yaakov is now irreversibly entwined with this song in my head, and I am far richer for it! The shofar blast and people running in Benny Friedman’s “Ivri Anochi” video made me spontaneously burst into tears with thoughts of Jewish unity and kibbutz galuyos.

A good music video is basically a short film - it can tell a story, or be more abstract and atmospheric. There are film directors who specialize in this particular genre, and their works can be lush or spare, over-the-top or stripped to bare emotions.

But I admit there are so many more mediocre music videos out there. Especially in today’s music biz, a music video will do much better on social media than audio alone, so singers will feel obligated to just put something, anything on YouTube to get them some precious eyeballs which will hopefully lead to people checking out the rest of their music.

Just cuz they can sing doesn’t make them visionary filmmakers, and they don’t have budgets to really accomplish anything too interesting either. (Hence the sub genre of frum music videos that function as covert commercials for their sponsors - be they toy stores, grocery stores (they have over 5 million views on this one!! Don't think that would have happened without a fun video...), wineries, etc.)

Last edited by bigsis144 on Tue, Aug 07 2018, 5:34 pm; edited 1 time in total

SuperWify

Tue, Aug 07 2018, 5:26 pm

Angels don’t eat ice cream or throw paint.

It’s just a song (very beautifully done) and I don’t think any child watching will think they are real malachim.

PinkFridge

Tue, Aug 07 2018, 7:13 pm

bigsis, that was a great post.

tigerwife

Tue, Aug 07 2018, 7:32 pm

NovelConcept wrote:

I disagree. Many chassidish singers have debuted music videos in the past decade or so. For some, it is the only genre of videos they allow their kids to watch. Given the high number of views on some of these videos, they are not only intended for a chareidi audience but for the Jewish world at large. Some will even have comments from non-Jews.

I thought the video was cute and nicely done albeit on a budget. Using a flowing white robe for the angel costumes is old as anything and is meant to be symbolic, not realistic. I can see why people don’t like using items of kedusha as props but personally I see them trying to make a kiddush H’ by showing how beautiful these mitzvos are.

dancingqueen

Tue, Aug 07 2018, 7:51 pm

PinkFridge wrote:

Lol ok. Shlomo Carlbach was a long time ago. I grew up with music videos and if you’re at all a visual learner type it can add a lot to the song. Think of it as a multi sensory experience.

I showed the video to my young kids, and the three year old said “mommy he’s Hashem” during the cloud scene lol. I thought the video was cute, I just would’ve preferred to see some girls too Wink

.

Last edited by dancingqueen on Tue, Aug 07 2018, 7:54 pm; edited 1 time in total