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Forum -> Working Women

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amother

Gray

Tue, Aug 07 2018, 2:18 pm

amother wrote:

There is problem with busing on legal holidays.

OP here. Don't worry, we don't get busing.

amother

Green

Tue, Aug 07 2018, 2:24 pm

amother wrote:

What do you mean nowhere else has 2 months vacation? Israel does (even two months and ten days for grade 7 and up). Canada does. Just off the top of my head.

I mentioned America and Israel in my post - nowhere else

And why do you think teachers are stressed paying for kids' vacations? They are home with them.

Do you think that teacher's kids don't expect a vacation because they are at home?

Anyway, in Israel at least, the paid two months vacation is one of the big incentives to teach. It's hard enough to teach here as it is. If the vacation were significantly cut, even fewer people would go into teaching.

Israeli teachers get paid 12 months a year to teach 8 months. Can you think of any other job with those conditions??? If you have an issue with salary, so it is a separate question but the low salary does not justify not having school.

I guess they could raise salaries instead, but in the states at least that would cause a tuition raise.
How much does camp cost? put that toward salaries! Same outlay and better all round.

mha3484

Tue, Aug 07 2018, 2:36 pm

amother wrote:

mha3484- how did the parents react to being told that the school is giving more school days?

The administration made their case and surveyed the parents before they did anything. Enough parents must have been interested because it is on the most recent calendar.

amother

Burlywood

Tue, Aug 07 2018, 2:36 pm

Many countries have 2 months vacation besides Israel and the US. From Canada to Argentina....look it up...maybe even most western countries.

Teachers are home with their kids during the summer, so they dont pay for care. Yes they pay for entertainment. But I dont think that keeps them from teaching beyeshuv hadaat as someone said.

As it is, in Israel at least, most of those who go into teaching either cant get into more lucrative fields, or do it so they can spend summer with their kids, and come home earlier to be with their kids. I am a teacher, I know the field. Until recently it was really considered compatible with motherhood, a good job for a mother. (Recently they lengthened school days and raised salaries, so it's a bit different).

Cancel summer vacation without making teaching a much more financially lucrative field, and you will mainly have the most mediocre people entering the field. (Along with a handful of idealists).

In Israel they are trying to solve the issue by introducing subsidized camp in the lower grades (run by people who get paid separately). The problems so far - it still costs money. Also it's not as fun as real (and expensive) camp or a trip abroad with your folks, so in some cities only the poorer kids go the school run camp, causing a class divide.

flowerpower

Tue, Aug 07 2018, 2:45 pm

amother wrote:

OP here. YES. My husband and I have to switch off who has to go for what, and that's the only way we can deal. I mean, my boys have school on Sunday anyway, I don't get what would be so hard about making it on a Sunday morning?

They make the chumash seuda and mishnayos siyum on a Sunday in many yeshivas.

saw50st8

Tue, Aug 07 2018, 2:56 pm

My kids school has one of the best schedules compared to other local schools. They give off for actual chagim (including chol hamoed), an extra day before/after Pesach, erev Yom Kippur, one day for Chanukah and yeshiva break. They use legal bank holidays for staff development since most of the parent body has at least one parent off. x-mas is "special visitors day."

Parent teacher conferences and siddur and chumash plays are on Sundays. Other events are in the evenings.

It's still a lot of days off, but manageable with planning. And family.

LoveHashem

Tue, Aug 07 2018, 3:18 pm

amother wrote:

Being off on Jewish holidays when most adults working on the secular world work, is super frustrating. Why is it done?

You want the kids to go to school on Jewish holidays? What upsets me is non working mothers who also can’t stand when their kids are home. I think that’s terrible. When my kids’ boys Yeshiva made longer hours on Sunday (their only day when they’re not in school for at least 10 hours straight) I called a few parents who I knew didn’t work to try to get a petition up so we could keep Sunday at least somewhat normal hours (until 3 pm isn’t long enough?) and I was shocked when I heard the general consensus saying, “no I don’t want them home more! I don’t have anything for them to do on sundays. The longer hours in school the better!” But what about the kids? What about not having even one day off a week in which to do fun stuff, for family time, to go to a doctors appt? Boys hours are way too long IMHO. I feel sorry for my kids and love when they’re home.

amother

Natural

Tue, Aug 07 2018, 3:19 pm

First of all, in much of the US it is actually more like 10 weeks than 8 weeks. My kids were done mid-june and only go back a week into September.

Many other countries have 6 weeks, which is plenty. But, there is then more vacation during the year.

For example, growing up in Australia, the school year was divided into four terms with a break between each. School starts January 31st. First term break was pesach with a few extra days tacked on. Second term was a proper 2-week winter break. Third term vacation was the week after Sukkot (we had school on chol hamoed). And then summer was 6 weeks. We also had school until 3.15 every Friday, and until 1pm on erev Yom tov except erev Yom Kippur and erev pesach (we got off 2 days before pesach). Chanukah we were often already on summer break but if we were still in school we had regular school.

There was also day camp at a reasonable rate to cover almost all the time off, but Australia is also more work-life balance friendly and it's easier for parents to take off.

amother

Burgundy

Tue, Aug 07 2018, 3:20 pm

amother wrote:

The bolded is so sad. What happened to wanting to make a difference or passion for your career?

princessleah

Tue, Aug 07 2018, 3:23 pm

OY! My kids' school is not working-parent friendly AT ALL. Off erev Yom Kippur and erev Pesach. Off Chagim but actually have school chol ha moed sukkot, and chanukah, which phew! Off all of pesach.
Then from Dec. 24th - Jan. 2, off labor day, Memorial day, a full week in February (new! this year! yay) and then another 9 days for pesach.
School day is over at 3:30. For an extra fee, you can participate in "after school," so helpful for working parents, which ends at 4:45!

amother

Floralwhite

Tue, Aug 07 2018, 3:24 pm

amother wrote:

Because it would be a travesty for an oot fami to visit their Brooklyn grandparents?

Even if a family isn't going anywhere, it doubles the days that working parents have to take off or make other childcare arrangements.

amother

Gray

Tue, Aug 07 2018, 3:24 pm

OP here! I forgot to add, not only are they off all the Jewish Holiday and Secular Holidays, but here in America, we also have to have off on SHUSHAN PURIM.

No. Really, people.

princessleah

Tue, Aug 07 2018, 3:25 pm

And to add, the school calendar is set up the way it is because of agricultural time, when kids had to be home during the summer to help with the harvest. (This is a main reason why schools in the US south end earlier than in the north, because the harvest was earlier)
It is no longer applicable!

amother

Gray

Tue, Aug 07 2018, 3:27 pm

amother wrote:

Now that air conditioning has been invented there is also no reason to close up school for two months in the summer. When it was too hard to study because of the weather it made sense to go to the mountains for those months but nowadays it is totally ridiculous. Let them learn in July and have August off .

It will solve:
a) costs of camp
b) boredom
c) kids who go backwards because of such a long stretch without learning
d) peer pressure to do all kinds of crazy things
e) pressure on families to up their vacations

..... I am sure you can think of more to add to the list...

It is even more absurd in Israel where the girls have this time off because they follow the American model and the boys don't.....

and don't come to me with "the teachers need their break" because nowhere in the rest of the world do the schools have two months vacation and all the teachers seem to be fine. In fact, if the teachers were less stressed with paying for their kids vacations, maybe they would have more yishuv hadaas to teach..

Interesting. I don't know if it's fair to only have four weeks off, but I hear you.

What I never understood about Israel is that the girls come home at 1pm? I mean, what do they do the rest of that time?

amother

Slateblue

Tue, Aug 07 2018, 3:36 pm

amother wrote:

Look, I'm sure everyone feels the same way. But the schools sent out their calendars, and I'm just SO FRUSTRATED.

I mean, why do our kids need so much time off? I'm anonymous because I say this to everyone I meet, but schools have to PICK A SIDE. My kids have off for both Jewish holidays AND national holidays. They get off for Thanksgiving and for Martin Luther King Day and for Presidents Day and for New Years and for Chanukah and for and entire week of midwinter break and for basically the entire September and April.

I work for a living, because tuition prices are out of control. And my feeling is, if I'm paying your exorbitant prices, I think we should have more school. I'm not sure why I have to pay for your three weeks of Pesach vacation. I mean, really? Are the Rabbis home all day cleaning? Are they cooking for Yom Tov? And for the women - guess what? I work all day, and I have to somehow make yom tov too. And "Isru Chag" - I mean, we just had all this time off, you can't get yourself back to school?

So now what I have to do is pay for tuition, THEN pay for these teenaged "camps" that pop up on these days at ridiculous prices.

To those that answer me - well, they do this for parents that go on vacation for yom tov. Well, I'm not sure why we schedule our school schedules around their lives. They can make up the work like anyone else.

To those that answer me, "well the teachers make so little money, this is their compensation". That I actually get, because women teachers are paid nothing. But the Rabbis? There's no reason why the boys can't at least have school instead of me hiring a babysitter so they can play video games on the tablet all day. AND, these teachers have the same problem - their kids are home all day, so who's actually getting all this work done for yom tov?

Just had to vent. It's not like anything is going to change. I just feel like schools think women don't work.

The sad part is that many of these schools actually teach and encourage the girls to go out to work so the husbands can learn. Instead of working along the lines with what they teach, the schools totally ignore it when comes to their own conveniences.

amother

Slateblue

Tue, Aug 07 2018, 3:39 pm

amother wrote:

Because it would be a travesty for an oot family to visit their Brooklyn grandparents?

Because this way they get to control the parent body some more. They give the kids vacation, but ensure that you have no recourse or outlet for them.

Either the schools should let the parents decide how they want to spend their vacation, or they shouldn't give vacation days at all. They can give the kids a break by providing their own in-house entertainment.

Sweepy

Tue, Aug 07 2018, 3:45 pm

I don't get the "teachers need a break" thing. Bills don't go on vacation for the summer. And no saleswoman/sheitelmacher/lawyer/secretary/graphic designer/doctor/nurse/cleaning lady/Amazoner/photographer/bookkeeper takes 2 months off just because it's hot out. Plus teachers already get more days off between September and June than all of the above.

studying_torah

Tue, Aug 07 2018, 3:48 pm

How about ending early for multiple pta afternoon events?! School plays at 11 am or 2 pm?!
And school ends quite early (before 4 pm; 2:30 for pre school)
Or if there's bad weather and kids come home mid-day!
I don't work now for other reasons, but if I could I have no idea how it would be possible.

Ruchel

Tue, Aug 07 2018, 3:57 pm

Some schools don't pay men more.
Some schools have a minimum number of days they need to be off.
Some schools have to be off on legal vacation because the cleaning ladies etc aren't Jewish.
Some schools have events on Sunday but then parents hate it also.
If your school ends at 2 you should pay much less.

amother

Dodgerblue

Tue, Aug 07 2018, 4:17 pm

Many schools have a majority of parents who want their kids off on legal holidays, because they and/or the grandparents are off and they want to spend time with them. Many have limudei chol teachers and other staff who require that day off, and for so many working parents, a half day is worse than no school. Many schools give off isru chag because a high enough percentage of the students won't be there.

It really is hard. I see zero reason not to do the plays on Sundays, or at the very least, just enough time after arrival to daven and/or get the kids set. And I a bugged that my local schools do girls and boys vacation separately to kee the older ones from hanging out together during down time. I get the motivation, but don't think it's a good enough reason.

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