Swapping apartments, now prefer payment

amother

Pink

Tue, Aug 14 2018, 7:49 pm

We are going to the states for succos. We needed a place to stay in boro park,so we had an ad asking for a swap of apartments. We found someone very interested. Then we were offered a free apartment. It's not as convenient as the swapped one, but we only need it for a few days (we are going a few different places, will be in bp 2 or 3 days only).
So we told the people interested that we would like payment for the extra days we they are using our apartment, but not have to pay for the days we swap.

They are not happy about it. We never finalized things.

Are we wrong to ask for money now?

lucky14

Tue, Aug 14 2018, 10:13 pm

I don't get it.. you're being offered a free aparmtent somewhere else? So to you it's not even like you'll be having to pay to stay anywhere anyway. Why does it matter that you'll be staying somewhere else (to you). You don't "need" the extra money to pay for your lodgings anyway since it'll all be free.
And btw yeah it is really odd to ask them to pay for it. I would be very upset about it. Even if no contract was signed you really should just keep with it as basic human decency.

amother

Yellow

Tue, Aug 14 2018, 10:29 pm

If you didn't finalize things then I don't see why it's a problem for you to back out.

How did you leave off with them before this new option came up (ie. did they think everything was wrapped up or both parties knew it wasn't confirmed yet)? How long ago did you discuss the original arrangement with them?

Amarante

Wed, Aug 15 2018, 3:26 am

I think it's really not in the spirit of a swap for you to now want to charge money for an apartment that you will not be using. It's not costing you money if they stay a few more days and the intent was a swap not a pure business transaction - neither of you is in the Air BnB business where you take possession for a certain number of days and pay for each day.

Alternative

Wed, Aug 15 2018, 5:48 am

amother wrote:

They are not happy about it. We never finalized things.

Are we wrong to ask for money now?

Yes, you are wrong to ask for money now. Very wrong. If they had wanted to pay money, they would have had the options of looking into airbnb or hotels, which might be better located for them or more suitable. But they didn't want to pay money - that's the whole reason they went for the swap!

Now, if you never finalized, I guess you could back out. But if it was kind of assumed that it's final, and the trip is next month and it's too late to find good alternative accomodation, then you should just bide by your original agreement. No payment.

amother

Yellow

Wed, Aug 15 2018, 11:00 am

I'm not understanding the responses here.

The scenario could be like this:
OP put an ad out offering to swap apartments
Someone expressed interest
In the end something else came up so her offer is no longer valid.

If it wasn't finalized why are they doing something wrong? Of course the other party is upset, renting an apartment in Israel for succos is very expensive so they were so excited with this option. Doesn't mean that OP has to be bound to them.

Though of course it depends how 'unfinalized' (yes, I know that's a made up word) it was.

amother

Natural

Wed, Aug 15 2018, 11:13 am

amother wrote:

Backing out entirely may be ok - but not nice.

Suggesting payment changes this arrangement from a swap to a rental.

amother

Tan

Wed, Aug 15 2018, 11:21 am

What would have finalized the agreement?

I would think it depends on how you left it last.

If it was: We will think about it and get back to you - so just back out of the whole thing and look for renters.

If it was: Sounds great - we will speak later to finalize the plans - that sounds final.

Also in the OP it wasn't clear if you plan to swap half the time and charge them for the half you aren't swapping. If it a half and half case then just back out altogether. You both should find a new place to stay.

It may be a little late to find renters anyways - and it may be late for them to find a place - so it is really pushing them into a difficult position.

amother

Mistyrose

Wed, Aug 15 2018, 11:57 am

amother wrote:

I don't think it is too late for OP to rent. I don't have plans yet, and it sounds interesting to me to rent.

Unlike most people here, I think I understand OP. She feels she is giving away something of value when she could be charging.

She should ask her rabbi.

amother

Pink

Wed, Aug 15 2018, 9:03 pm

op here.

I'm going to change something and clarify others.

I posted as the owner who now wanted payment. We are actually the other side. The ones who expected the swap and are now being asked for payment.

We had no plans to go away for succos until my son the add for the swap. We thought this would give us a chance to visit with another son for succos. Both sides were agreeable. The other side said they were going away for a few days, and would finalize when they returned. As ticket prices are not cheap, and tickets are going fast, we bought the tickets to fly there. During these few days, the other side got the offer of the free apartment, and decided they wanted payment from us. We will be using their apartment for about 2.5 weeks, they will use ours for 1 week. They want payment for the extra 1.5 weeks.

They say they can ask for $125 a night, but will take less. We checked into other options for renting and the price is almost 3x what they are asking from us. As we bought the tickets already, we really are stuck and will have to pay it.

amother

Yellow

Wed, Aug 15 2018, 9:07 pm

amother wrote:

Are they still using your apartment for part of the time? If yes, then this doesn't make sense at all. Tell them that you've discussed it with many people and they all think it's totally unfair to demand this.

Additionally, it seems that they need you as well so why not tell them that in that case you will back out too? Why do they get to decide on the terms?

OOC, what area are you looking to rent in? I know people in Israel looking to rent out their apartments, and for far less than $125 a night.

amother

Natural

Wed, Aug 15 2018, 9:25 pm

And if you don't stay there for those extra 1.5 days - were they planning on renting it out to some other family? do they regularly rent out their place when they are away?

they aren't suffering a loss, if renting out their place isn't normally something they do. A token amount to cover utilities makes sense to me - otherwise they are being truly awful to you.

WhatFor

Wed, Aug 15 2018, 9:29 pm

I agree this is not nice of them at all. They posted an ad for a swap, you accepted the swap, then they changed the terms on you. It's quite nasty actually.

I get the you incurred some kind of risk when you booked the flights but were you somewhat finalized before you did? ("Sure- we agree. We'll ring you in a few days for details and to finalize plans" as opposed to "we're not sure if we're going to ultimately swap. Let us get back to you in a few days.")

If you'd be able to post the same ad and get someone else to swap with you, I'd definitely do that. The other thing you can do (since they're charging) is look up airbnb prices for a full apartment in your area. If it comes out to more than what an apt in their area is, you could say, "I thought we had a swap, but since we're charging, here's what it would cost to stay in our apartment for that week." I don't know it you'll ultimately get your way though or just escalate things, but they're being nasty.

You can also suggest you go to beis din over this. You have the ad which says what they were looking for. Sounds like they did a bait and switch.

lucky14

Wed, Aug 15 2018, 10:54 pm

seriously what happens if you'd pull out from the deal? They'd have to find somewhere to stay for the time they were going to stay at your place.
Sorry you already bought tickets Sad

I hope you are able to work something out (meaning an extreeeeemely reduced rate or they see that they should swap you all nights for free. hey, hopefully they'll read about it on here!)