Where did my sweet daughter go?

amother

Chartreuse

Mon, Aug 20 2018, 12:31 pm

PART ONE
My daughter is 11. I love her, she is my precious girl. But she is becoming EXTREMELY stubborn, disrespectful, illogical, negative, and just argumentative for nearly no reason at all. She wont even let me make one point. Talking with her when its about her behavior is maddening. My husband says (BTW he is a pediatric mental health professional) that its normal, she is becoming a teen.

But its hard. And I truly dont know how to handle it. I feel completely unprepared. My good sense and instincts are not working. I try to be extremly gentle and loving, it doesnt work. I try to be firm and matter of fact, it doesnt work. I dont know whether to be tough or easygoing. I dont want to let her get away with all this disrespect and bad behavior, but I dont want to push her chas vshalom too far. You can never be careful enough these days.

I'm scared that my daughter is becoming an unpleasant person and I'm so worried for her, for all of us.

Have you gone through this? What was the outcome? Can you recommend a parenting class or book that helped you deal with teen behavior?

PART TWO
AND of course this is all coming about when she will be bat mitzvah in less than a year. And she is caring less and less about the real meaning of it. Instead using it as leverage to go on trips or get big presents ("instead of a party just get me xyz or take me to abc")

(BTW I am equating a party with meaning because it would be a modest party all about a spiritual theme or mitzvah that we choose together and get all hyped up and excited about and surround a chessed and or activity around it so the focus is all about that middah/mitzvah/ etc...)

Thanks very much.
A very worried mom who wants to do the right thing, but doesnt know what that is.

Chayalle

Mon, Aug 20 2018, 12:38 pm

To be honest, I don't think that is normal for a teen. That they separate, and become more independent, is normal, but you are describing more disconnect than that.

I really am into a mother's instinct, and in this case, you are worried. I do think it might help you to talk to an outside professional, to help you get back on track with your daughter, and to evaluate if she needs any outside help/support.

FranticFrummie

Mon, Aug 20 2018, 12:42 pm

I feel you! 11 and 12 are the worst ages EVER. Give me the terrible two's any day.

Hormones. If she hasn't had her period yet, she's going to start within a year.

Identity differentiation. She's trying on "being an adult", but she doesn't know what it should look like. She's experimenting with behavior to see what will happen. She's starting to think about herself as an individual who is separate from the family group. This is normal. Remember, in many cultures she's be married off by next year!

When DD was in this phase, the only thing that worked was for me to give her tons of space and alone time. She was in her room with the door closed 24/7. She'd even want to take her dinner to her bedroom instead of eating with us.

Treat her like a wounded animal. Try to ignore her, and she'll slowly come to you. Don't bring up any confrontations at those times. Just be pleasant and normal so she will feel safe talking to you.

Hang in there, it gets better!

crust

Mon, Aug 20 2018, 1:51 pm

I agree with Chayalle.

This is not regular teen behavior. With all due respect to your husband and his profession, I think that at the end of the day, a mother can often have a better judgment than the most skilled clinician.

Re Part 2;

You seem like a person that is educated, emotionally developed and interested in hearing others opinions so I hope it is ok to share my genuine opinion from a mother's point of view.

Not all children at 12 (or at 16 or at 19) are in touch with meaning and spirituality. It is too abstract for them and therefore has no real value. Some people wake up in their thirties and realize it's not only about trips.

So, If she were my daughter, my focus for the next few years would be to get to the root of the behavior and leave the spirituality part completely out for now. I would just go along with the excitement and the fun part of the party- things that interest her, now.

The way I see it is that being able to be connected spiritually is a result of being emotionally healthy.
By helping her come to a better place emotionally (or behavioral) you are essentially helping her be able to connect.

I wish you lots of strength and Siyata Dishmaya.

amother

Pearl

Mon, Aug 20 2018, 2:05 pm

As a mom of 4 girls ages12-24 let me assure you that this is normal and this too shall pass Ignore her whenever possible give her much space and love but outright disrespect or breaking Halacha should not be tolerated. If she mumbles something under her breath pretend you didn’t hear. If she says something nasty to you or another fam member just say ‘that was really not nice, I really hope you won’t say that ever again’ Hatzlacha rabba

amother

Chartreuse

Mon, Aug 20 2018, 4:49 pm

Chayalle wrote:

Thanks and yikes. OK I'm going to give some thought as to who to reach out to. I would love to speak to someone just to hear some things about how to react, where to draw the line, etc... and what impact my various reactions or lack thereof might affect her in the long term.

amother

Chartreuse

Mon, Aug 20 2018, 4:52 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

No period yet. K. Pleasant and normal - I can try that. It sounds like you had a "happy ending" with this. Thanks.

amother

Chartreuse

Mon, Aug 20 2018, 4:57 pm

grace413 wrote:

She'll be back in about 10 years. In the meantime, choose your battles wisely, ignore as much as you can and remember it's not your fault. She's growing up and has to find her own way.

That said, rudeness and disrespect are not acceptable.

Its especially hard to ignore, as in, I CANT, when she criticizes my delicious happy innocent 4 year old for repeating an outfit from 3 days ago, less someone think she is wearing dirty clothes, or yells at everyone because someone committed the crime of putting the clean bathing suits in closets rather than a certain bathing suit area we have. Its really tough when she sends this negativity out onto other pple - am I supposed to just ignore this? pretend I dont see it? (I'm really asking) its harrrrdddd

ra_mom

Mon, Aug 20 2018, 6:00 pm

Chayalle wrote:

I like Chayala's post. The parent child connection needs strengthening.

thunderstorm

Mon, Aug 20 2018, 6:04 pm

I acted this way when I was 11 but I was going through a hard time. My DS acted like this at age 12 but he was going through a hard time. It could be something as silly as a teacher ticking her off. I panicked when my DS turned into a "different person". Baruch HaShem he got over what was bothering him and he is back to himself. Yes , it's normal for an 11 yr old girl to be sensitive and moody but not to turn into a stranger overnight.
I would try to see if there is anything bothering her. But I do believe it's a passing phase. It's really difficult on the people living around her but it is part of what happens with tweens.
I found this article very helpful and consoling when I read it. I realized my child's behavior was normal.

https://www.verywellfamily.com.....17892

amother

Babypink

Mon, Aug 20 2018, 8:44 pm

Op, have you tried humor to diffuse difficult situations? My girls all went through a rocky point right before they matured physically and humor really helped us through.

When they'd freak out about little things is turn it into a big joke and it helped a lot because they saw how poorly they were behaving without me needimg to tell them off and it also gave them a safe exit from a conversation they might have otherwise felt they were stuck in (its really hard to be wrong when you're 12).

Laughing together also strengthens relationships.

amother

Blue

Mon, Aug 20 2018, 9:33 pm

Happened to my daughters, too. Only mean to me and dh, not to grandparents or teachers. They came back, b"H. Around fourteen/fifteen they became more secure, sweet and positive again. Remember that the social situation is so hard for a middle school girl, the other girls over night become intense, competitive brats. EVERY eleven year old is having a hard time. I'm so sorry because I know how awful and disruptive it is, they highjack your home! But just be as loving as you can, set firm limits ("no, we will be focusing on a mitzvah for your bas mitzvah"), and make sure to give her one on one attention that is full of love (at bedtime,"I just want you to know how special you are to me, I can'tbbelieve you're almost bas mitzvah, you're such a precious gift to me"),b'ezras Hadhem in a few years she'll be back!

Amarante

Tue, Aug 21 2018, 3:05 am

I am curious as to why you would think the opinions of women on the internet who don't know your daughter are more valid than your husband who is not only a specialist in pediatric mental health but has been intimately acquainted with her behavior since she was born. He assures you that it is normal behavior and for some reason you feel that he isn't correct. If he were NOT your husband and you had taken her for a diagnosis, would you also reject his opinion that it was completely normal?

I don't mean to be snarky but obviously it's normal adolescent - or more accurately - pre-adolescent behavior. If your daughter wasn't acting out in some manner, there would be something wrong with her development.

I think the pressure on young girls today is exponentially much more difficult than even 15 years ago because of the intense pressure and probably the behavioral acting out occurs at a younger age. And being obnoxious to siblings and parents is part of normal behavior as difficult as it is to live with because it is safe to be obnoxious to them. I would suspect that she is well manner (more or less) outside the home where it isn't safe to act out her anxieties.

Chayalle

Tue, Aug 21 2018, 8:37 am

amother wrote:

No need to feel overwhelmed - I didn't mean to say that your daughter has any major issues. It's just that I find there are times where we can get help and make positive strides toward a better relationship, and prevent a situation from getting worse, with some outside perspective and support.

Amarante, I've seen even professionals who have missed signs of problems in their own families. I'd venture to say, sometimes more than the average parent. I think if a mother is worried, she should follow her instinct even if her professional spouse thinks it's normal behavior.

ShishKabob

Tue, Aug 21 2018, 1:45 pm

Even if it's under the realm of normal behavior, I still think a mother can say to a daughter whether she is pms'ing or not "I understand that you are angry right now, however, this is not the way to speak to a mother". No anger, just as a matter of fact thing. You don't push buttons by stating this calmly.

amother

Yellow

Tue, Aug 21 2018, 2:19 pm

My HS daughter had some really crazy behavior, to the extent that we shlepped to Manhattan to a top psychiatrist. But as we were describing the various incidents and looking at a calendar, I said, HEY - PMS! Very very severe. But once she understood what it was she was able to work on getting enough sleep, eating healthy, and it got much better (though I could always tell).

The interesting thing is a few of her kids have been diagnosed with PANDAS. Not sure if there's any connection. Although onset of hormones could be sudden, I would definitely check for PANDAS.

As to what some have said about the DH being a professional, sometimes the shoemakers children go barefoot? Or, it's hard to be objective about one's own child, that's why doctors are not supposed to treat their own family members.