Chassidish women driving in Monsey

amother

Mauve

Mon, Aug 27 2018, 12:11 pm

amother wrote:

Dancing queen asked why woman don't band together and demand driving. I said many women like it, their husbands and Rabbis like it. I will go further. Their fathers like it. Chassidish woman by in large are not rebellious.

The woman can drive. They just can't send their kids to schools with no driving. So all the non-driving women, who are not online, would get the information and ban together. For the most part information distribution is controlled by men in Monsey absent the internet.

So the women can drive, they just can't send their kids to schools with no driving. Being that all chassidish schools don't allow driving, and yeshivish schools don't accept chassidishe parents, especially those who drive, where does that leave them?

ShishKabob

Mon, Aug 27 2018, 12:15 pm

This whole thread is just a vent really. A pp mentioned that the people that set the rules don't go on the internet. Now, I won't say that they don't, but they definitely don't come here to see what ima's opinions on the matter are. Smile

Especially, because we aren't supposed to be here in the first place.
Smile

amother

Slateblue

Mon, Aug 27 2018, 12:37 pm

amother wrote:

As I said I dont have any kids Yet but I was told there is a pretty big and growing chassidish school accepting driving mothers if I remember correctly the name is bais derech yisroel

amother

Brunette

Mon, Aug 27 2018, 1:08 pm

amother wrote:

It leaves them exactly where they are. They either follow the rules or don't have a place for their kids. It leaves them looked down upon for changing regardless if they find a spot for their children.

GreenEyes26

Mon, Aug 27 2018, 3:32 pm

Go ahead! wrote:

I'm not getting into this topic, because I know there are a few approaches for this (and surely I don't look down upon women who drive).
Still I must say a few facts:
Here in Israel most frum women don't drive (and it's actually less necessary here because of various reasons), but you know what? Many of the men don't do either (especially as bochurim but also later in life).
so I can assure you the reason is NOT "trying to control women" etc.
And there is no any correlation what-so-ever between the Arabs not wanting the women to drive, and us. The reasons are totally and completely different. I mean, come on.
And by the way, The rabbis are not against us, if you ever thought that's the case Smile

Oh, honey.

amother

Mauve

Mon, Aug 27 2018, 4:32 pm

amother wrote:

And then you ask why they proceed to drop more and more of the restrictions?! Precisely because you look down upon them for doing absolutely nothing wrong!!! Its this attitude that has people fleeing for the hills!

amother

Cobalt

Mon, Aug 27 2018, 4:55 pm

Go ahead! wrote:

Still I must say a few facts:
Here in Israel most frum women don't drive (and it's actually less necessary here because of various reasons), but you know what? Many of the men don't do either (especially as bochurim but also later in life).
so I can assure you the reason is NOT "trying to control women" etc.

These are your facts? Where exactly are you getting your information from?
I can assure you that most frum women in Israel actually do drive. Even many of the charedi women drive, perhaps the majority.

I think you might be extrapolating from a specific charedi enclave in Jerusalem or Beit Shemesh or something. Not reflective of most frum women in Israel at all.

amother

Brunette

Mon, Aug 27 2018, 6:03 pm

amother wrote:

It isn't the driving that causes them to be looked down upon, it is the not listening to the rules they were brought up with that causes them not to be respected.

I know several old time Vitznitz rebbetzens who drove in Monsey. They would never think nicely of their daughters, daughter in laws, daughters, great grand daughters if they drove. These women did not in any way lower their standards.

It is the rare woman that doesn't continue changing things when she starts driving now.

Go ahead!

Mon, Aug 27 2018, 6:17 pm

For some reason I can't quote. I'm writing to you amother-Cobalt.
Most of the women who learned in the mainstream Charedi seminaries in Israel don't drive. I'm sure of it.
But that's not the point. I just mentioned this as an aside.
The point I was trying to make was: There are better reasons for the rabbis than "trying to control women" and such... Be real, No one tries to make you miserable! Smile

Raisin

Mon, Aug 27 2018, 6:32 pm

amother wrote:

Let me get this clear. A chassidish woman in her 60s living in Monsey drives. Her daughter or granddaughter is not allowed to drive and would be looked down upon by her mother if she did so?

amother

Brunette

Mon, Aug 27 2018, 7:19 pm

Raisin wrote:

Let me get this clear. A chassidish woman in her 60s living in Monsey drives. Her daughter or granddaughter is not allowed to drive and would be looked down upon by her mother if she did so?

They don't drive anymore afaik. I know at least one of their mother's also drove because she told me so.

It isn't the driving that would upset them as I said.

Notsobusy

Mon, Aug 27 2018, 7:24 pm

amother wrote:

This doesn't make any sense to me. If these women drove, then they clearly did not teach their children that the correct thing is not to drive. If so, how would it be breaking the rules they were brought up with if they learn to drive?

Orchid

Mon, Aug 27 2018, 7:32 pm

amother wrote:

To quote myself like 10 pages ago, you can instantly brand anything "untznius" and when people breach that rule, they are suddenly "not listening to rules." So if there is a new rule that you have to have a shirt with 4 buttons or 6 buttons on Tuesdays, but not 5 buttons, and you one Tuesday decide to wear a 5 button shirt because you really like it, and besides, the whole thing with 5-buttons-being-assur is utterly ridiculous, suddenly you are a RULE BREAKER even though there is nothing at all inherently bad about wearing 5 buttons on Tuesdays.

Last edited by Orchid on Mon, Aug 27 2018, 8:34 pm; edited 1 time in total

dancingqueen

Mon, Aug 27 2018, 7:34 pm

Go ahead! wrote:

So enlighten us: what are the reasons? And “come on” and “be real” are not explanations.

amother

Brunette

Mon, Aug 27 2018, 7:46 pm

Notsobusy wrote:

I am not an expert. But these women taught their children and in turn they taught their children to listen to the rebbe. There is a picture of Chaya Mushka Schneerson not wearing a sheital and having a different (lesser) tznius standard than today's women. The excuse that she didn't cover and wore a dress above her elbows wouldn't work if chabad women decided to do the same today. Standards change.

amother

Slategray

Mon, Aug 27 2018, 7:52 pm

amother wrote:

The moshol is not related to the nimshol. Not a good example.

Go ahead!

Mon, Aug 27 2018, 7:54 pm

dancingqueen wrote:

So enlighten us: what are the reasons? And “come on” and “be real” are not explanations.

I don't understand this either, I just know that famous rabbonim were debating this topic seriously, and there was no only one answer.
I DO know which reasons are NOT true, as I mentioned.
Not everything we don't understand means it's stupid and irrational.

amother

Brunette

Mon, Aug 27 2018, 7:54 pm

Orchid wrote:

You are making up completely stupid examples, but there are shirt button rules but nothing to do with Tuesdays. In New Square, men wear boots on Shabbos. If they decided they wanted to wear shoes instead, there would be concerns about them. The concerns would be that they aren't stable.

In a society so obviously concerned with externals, the minutia of how you present yourself to the world counts.

dancingqueen

Mon, Aug 27 2018, 8:14 pm

Go ahead! wrote:

So only men can understand the reasons women can’t drive Confused