So torn possible abuse

amother

Pink

Mon, Aug 27 2018, 10:24 pm

hi could really use some advice here
we have a 12 year old that we have fostered for the last 9 years since he was 3
and we are currently in process of adoption
things have never been easy with him always pushing limits
but in general we have had many good family moments with him

we also have a 4 year old boy and twin baby girls (biological)
on saturday night bathing my 4 year old he tells me that his older brother showed him a game and he didnt like this game at all and told him to stop

basically the game was that the 12 year old pulled out his aiver and put it in the tuchus of the 4 year old.

naturally I freaked out and asked him if it hurt and he said no

we talked to the 12 year old and he didnt deny it and looked pretty ashamed but wouldnt answer our questions
since then we have not left them together alone
and have spoken to the institution here
to see if we can give him back to foster care

we have been his parents for 9 years
but we are terrified this happened
and can not risk anything further happening
although it could be just natural exploration between brothers (although the age difference is what freaks me out)
and there was no penetration as far as we know

is this something to do this drastic
say goodbye after all these years
we put into him we are the only family he knows

and we have treated him like a son for so many important years of his childhood

or we should stick it out and be hyper attentive and hope it was one silly game
and not make such a drastic traumatic for everyone move

thank you so much for any advice

thunderstorm

Mon, Aug 27 2018, 10:29 pm

amother wrote:

This needs professional guidance. It's possible the 12 yr old has been or is being abused as well.
BOTH children need to be involved with professionals at this time. This is a serious matter. I don't have advice, just many hugs and wishes for hatzlacha and knowledge in making the right decision

simba

Mon, Aug 27 2018, 10:31 pm

That's sounds so painful.
I would urge you to speak to a professional well versed in zexual abuse to understand this "game" and what it means.
Kudos to you for protecting your child. Kudos to you for caring for a foster child.
Kudos to you for trying to understand this and making an informed move instead of an emotional fear based move.

mommy3b2c

Mon, Aug 27 2018, 10:32 pm

I’m having a difficult time understanding how you relate to this child. You have raised him for nine years, yet you don’t seem to see him as your son. Would you put your biological child in foster care for this? Then please don’t do it to this poor child. Where do you think he learned this behavior from? Someone is obviously abusing him. Please get him the help he needs. I’m pretty sure his parents abandoning him won’t do him any good.

amother

Silver

Mon, Aug 27 2018, 10:33 pm

Wow! You sound amazing! I totally hear your concern and not speaking from experience, but you would give him up??

I have a child that also had possible issues in that area and was told to keep my eyes and ears open. It wasnt the same “game” but enough statements that make me assume something happened. She is my biological child so obviously not giving her up... maybe speak to his social worker and try to get to the bottom of it!

I just feel bad for the poor bit to be put out in the big world at this vulnerable age and stage

Good luck!!!

simba

Mon, Aug 27 2018, 10:37 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

After reading the OP I am surprised that you have any judgements on this amother.

amother

Tangerine

Mon, Aug 27 2018, 10:45 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

I don’t like the judgmental tone of this post.
OP is in a terribly difficult position.
The age difference, the previous difficulties with this child, the challenge of finding enough eyes and ears to monitor his every interaction with three vulnerable very small children, all these make this an impossible situation.
Wishing you find the right shaliach to help you make the right decision OP!

mommy3b2c

Mon, Aug 27 2018, 11:00 pm

simba wrote:

After reading the OP I am surprised that you have any judgements on this amother.

Im not trying to judge. I’m trying to understand how parents can abandon their child. This 12 year old has been their child longer then the other three children. I admit, I have my own personal reasons for my reaction but I am having a hard time processing the op.

gamanit

Mon, Aug 27 2018, 11:01 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

Parents have sent their biological children away for similar situations. They don't put them into foster care but they send them to dormitory schools, sometimes even military style boarding schools. It's painful from every angle.

simba

Mon, Aug 27 2018, 11:14 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

Let's agree that this needs professionals and that's OP needs encouragement to get them involved. Not further guilt. Which we can hear from her OP, she is carrying a lot of that already.

amother

Crimson

Mon, Aug 27 2018, 11:21 pm

Hugs to you OP, what a hard situation to be in. You must repost the incident to his case worker & adoption agency & talk to his social worker/psychologist. They will tell you how to proceed regarding the adoption. They might decide that it's too dangerous for him to be around other kids now. Hope you get through this strongly! Loads of luck.

amother

Saddlebrown

Tue, Aug 28 2018, 1:23 am

Be aware that if you send this child back to foster care, you will undo every bit of good you have done for him, and more. He will now have it confirmed what he already believes - that he is unlovable, unfixable, and it was just a matter of time until you got rid of him.

That doesn't mean do nothing. But sending him back after he has been part of your family for 9 years(!!!) - how can you even consider that as the first step?

amother

Khaki

Tue, Aug 28 2018, 2:23 am

Wow, this is really tough. I'm so sorry.

I just want to say that I agree with everyone saying that you need to get the social worker amd psychologist involved asap. I also think you should get some short term therapy for your 4 year old so he can really leave this behind him and not be scarred. I think you should also heap on the praise that he told you right away and that he said STOP. Read to him the Rabbi Horowitz books- let's stay safe and Personal Privacy.

I want to also add that I really think the 12 year old was/is being abused. How would he know otherwise about putting a p*nis in a tuchus? He needs help right away.

Hatzlacha! And hugs.

rivkam

Tue, Aug 28 2018, 2:28 am

amother wrote:

Fyi it can be very normal for a 12 year old to already have seen p@rn nowadays so it could be something he has just seen and isn't a sign of him having gone through abuse necessarily

Catcher

Tue, Aug 28 2018, 3:01 am

Pleeeease do not crowdscource opinions on the internet. This needs to be handled by child and adoption specialists. I am a social worker and I do not necessarily think that the 12 year old has or is being abused. Or being abusive. Nevertheless, there must be communication and education regarding bodily privacy and se3ual behaviour and boundaries for all the children.

I do know that if you send this child back into care, you will effectively destroy his life.

amother

Rose

Tue, Aug 28 2018, 6:34 am

I am so so so sorry for you and that you are going through this

you are protecting all your children -- though obviously more complicated you can look at it as if he were your biological son and proceed accordingly -- serious measures would still be warranted.

yes please report this to the SW involved -- sad to say you also wouldn't know now on your own if he were a risk to children outside of the home R"L.

this must be handled professionally and effectively immediately for all involved

B"H your 4 year old told you. B"H he spoke up and told him to stop. Things happen even amongst biological children and must also be handled with such urgency R"L.

12 can be a very tough age, this is very scary, and your smaller children are obviously very vulnerable. You must be doing so much right B"H and Hashem Watched over you all that your little one told you.

Brocha v hatzlocha

FranticFrummie

Tue, Aug 28 2018, 7:48 am

amother wrote:

My first thoughts as well. I have an adopted child who has given me a run for my money, and I can't imagine ever sending her away.

If you abandon this boy (YOUR SON) at such a delicate age, he will be broken for life. He needs help. Your help. Hashem sent him to your home for a reason. If you reach out, Hashem will send you the wisdom and clarity to deal with the situation.

I am proud of you that your 4yo feels safe to tell you about this. That proves that you are a good mom. I'm just thinking that with therapy, the 4yo will recover. With the 12yo, if he is removed from your home, no amount of therapy will fix that.

I think you did the right thing by reaching out and getting help to process your feelings. You've gotten excellent advice about going straight to the professionals before you make any firm decisions.

I'll be davening for your whole family. Hug