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Forum
-> Chinuch, Education & Schooling
naturalmom5
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 Wed, Sep 05 2018, 3:12 am
| amother wrote: | Wow. Now I get it. Now I understand why it is so ridiculous for people to offer advice on imamother. In one breath you've decided my ray-of-sunshine, uber-confident and extremely charming child who melts hearts of everyone, is actually a child lacking in self-esteem.
And you've decided that my child who, though he can extremely lebidig when in the mood and yes, make trouble, is actually a very calm and peaceful child most other times, probably has some disorder that needs to be managed with meds.
I offered you one glimpse into a tiny sliver of our life, and you've been both judge and jury -- and doctor offering meds.
This is extremely misplaced behavior on your end, and would I be a weakling, I might actually let your assessment throw me into turmoil. But I am an experienced parent who knows her child well, and knows that your assessment is a bunch of baloney.
I am really shocked at the absurdity of your post. |
And we are all equally shocked and horrified at your attempt to justify potching on the part of the school and Rebbe...
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amother
Coffee
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Wed, Sep 05 2018, 3:15 am
| monkeys wrote: | | I can’t disagree with this enough! A potch from a tatty whose love is unconditional for doing something extremely dangerous or chutzpadik? Maybe. But a potch from a rebbi???? NEVER! A child like this needs help and love. He needs to have fond memories of the people who are supposed to teach him Torah. He needs rebbeim who will build and not break. He needs rebbeim who will channel his energy in a productive way. A rebbi should never potch. Never ever ever!! |
"A child like this"?
As mentioned in the post above this one, this is one of the happiest-go-lucky kids I've ever seen. Nothing gets him down. And when he's wrong, he'll admit it. If he were to get a potch, he's the type that would say, "I know I deserved that."
All kids need love and fond memories. They also need firm, but loving guidance when necessary. His rebbie was my husband's own rebbie, a man in the line for many years, an educator loved by all. My son adores his rebbie, and I do know he has gotten one small potch from him in the past. And my son told me that it didn't hurt, and he knows he deserved it.
A rebbie is required to know his kids, and to know boundaries, and to know how to use healthy disciplinary tools. A well-given potch can be a positive tool. A potch with anger, lacking love is not okay. But that's not how it happens. You can call that abuse. I don't.
I would never get free reign to anyone to smack my kid up, but once in a while, a small potch for a good reason, done in the appropriate way is sometimes the right thing to be done.
You don't have to agree.
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naturalmom5
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Wed, Sep 05 2018, 3:25 am
| amother wrote: | "A child like this"?
As mentioned in the post above this one, this is one of the happiest-go-lucky kids I've ever seen. Nothing gets him down. And when he's wrong, he'll admit it. If he were to get a potch, he's the type that would say, "I know I deserved that."
All kids need love and fond memories. They also need firm, but loving guidance when necessary. His rebbie was my husband's own rebbie, a man in the line for many years, an educator loved by all. My son adores his rebbie, and I do know he has gotten one small potch from him in the past. And my son told me that it didn't hurt, and he knows he deserved it.
A rebbie is required to know his kids, and to know boundaries, and to know how to use healthy disciplinary tools. A well-given potch can be a positive tool. A potch with anger, lacking love is not okay. But that's not how it happens. You can call that abuse. I don't.
I would never get free reign to anyone to smack my kid up, but once in a while, a small potch for a good reason, done in the appropriate way is sometimes the right thing to be done.
You don't have to agree. |
DCF doesn;t see things the way you do...
Just saying..
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amother
Coffee
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Wed, Sep 05 2018, 3:33 am
That's not true. Just saying.
Pulled from DCF's website:
Evidence of physical abuse includes:
excessive physical punishment
Note the word, excessive. In other words, use your brain. We are blessed with them for a reason.
https://portal.ct.gov/DCF/1-DC.....tions
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amother
Lawngreen
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Wed, Sep 05 2018, 7:49 am
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There are plenty of stories of excessive potching in chassidish cheders. To me, that's abuse. The rebbi's do it out of anger. If a rabbi would pick up a hand to my child, I would make such a fuss the school wouldn't know what hit them.
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Maya
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Wed, Sep 05 2018, 8:33 am
| amother wrote: | Maya, that depends on what your definition of physical abuse is. While we all agree that hitting a child in anger, hitting to harm or hitting to shame is abuse, there are times that a potch is called for.
Take my son, an extremely fun-loving, happy, lebidig child. The problem is that he loves to jump around a little too much. Sometimes it crosses into really inappropriate behavior, like when he er, um... high-fived his rebbie's rear end...  He was rolling, and he planned to do it again the next day because he thought it was hilarious...
Or the time he had one of those sticky hands and thwacked it across his bus rebbie's face...
Or like today, when he told me that he climbed up on the roof...
In those instances, the rebbies handled it all without a potch. But if they had given one, I would stand behind them, especially when it came to the roof incident. I love my son enough to want to keep him alive... rather a potch than worse. |
Your child whacked his rebbi’s behind and his bus rebbi’s face, and you’re laughing and justifying potching in school.
You and your child both need professional intervention.
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amother
Bisque
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Wed, Sep 05 2018, 8:43 am
| amother wrote: | Wow. Now I get it. Now I understand why it is so ridiculous for people to offer advice on imamother. In one breath you've decided my ray-of-sunshine, uber-confident and extremely charming child who melts hearts of everyone, is actually a child lacking in self-esteem.
And you've decided that my child who, though he can extremely lebidig when in the mood and yes, make trouble, is actually a very calm and peaceful child most other times, probably has some disorder that needs to be managed with meds.
I offered you one glimpse into a tiny sliver of our life, and you've been both judge and jury -- and doctor offering meds.
This is extremely misplaced behavior on your end, and would I be a weakling, I might actually let your assessment throw me into turmoil. But I am an experienced parent who knows her child well, and knows that your assessment is a bunch of baloney.
I am really shocked at the absurdity of your post. |
You can't see the forest for the trees meaning you are too close to see how shocking what you said is.
You gave several incidents that are not normal. I urge you, his experienced mommy, to start by speaking with his pediatrician who can start the process of an evaluation.
I didn't evaluate him; although, I have an idea of what the diagnosis possibly might be. His lack of impulse control is only one factor of what is wrong.
I also didn't say that your child lacked self esteem now. Getting disciplined, whether it is a potch or being told that he is a bad boy or being yelled at or being sent to see the menehel all contribute to a child developing low self esteem.
There are other kinder solutions than a child getting potched at school.
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amother
Amber
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Wed, Sep 05 2018, 8:43 am
| naturalmom5 wrote: | Baltimore Baltimore Baltimore would be paradise for you.... 
Monsey NO  |
Yup!!! Please!!
Op, I’m also chassidish, bt, tichel wearing only. Please come to Baltimore and join us! Super warm and welcoming.
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amother
Ginger
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Wed, Sep 05 2018, 9:08 am
| amother wrote: | Maya, that depends on what your definition of physical abuse is. While we all agree that hitting a child in anger, hitting to harm or hitting to shame is abuse, there are times that a potch is called for.
Take my son, an extremely fun-loving, happy, lebidig child. The problem is that he loves to jump around a little too much. Sometimes it crosses into really inappropriate behavior, like when he er, um... high-fived his rebbie's rear end... He was rolling, and he planned to do it again the next day because he thought it was hilarious...
Or the time he had one of those sticky hands and thwacked it across his bus rebbie's face...
Or like today, when he told me that he climbed up on the roof...
In those instances, the rebbies handled it all without a potch. But if they had given one, I would stand behind them, especially when it came to the roof incident. I love my son enough to want to keep him alive... rather a potch than worse. |
This is so refreshing. It's nice to see there are parents who understand that kids sometimes do wacky things and not always does it mean they need meds.
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Maya
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Wed, Sep 05 2018, 9:12 am
| amother wrote: | | This is so refreshing. It's nice to see there are parents who understand that kids sometimes do wacky things and not always does it mean they need meds. |
So the other side of the coin of meds is a potch from a rebbi?
And “wacky” is not the description I would use to call multiple physical assaults of rebbis.
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amother
Lawngreen
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Wed, Sep 05 2018, 9:12 am
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Amother coffee, your child needs an evaluation! None of the things you said he did are normal behavior for a "calm" child. You're ignorance is astonishing. If you live with a situation you don't realize how abnormal it is. A potch for this type of behavior won't help, because it seems that your son doesn't know what he's doing wrong. He'll just stay with the memories that he was potched in school & mom agreed with the Rabbi's potching. Please give your son the help he needs.
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pause
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Wed, Sep 05 2018, 9:18 am
| Maya wrote: | Your child whacked his rebbi’s behind and his bus rebbi’s face, and you’re laughing and justifying potching in school.
You and your child both need professional intervention. |
This.
You sound like you're proud of his lebedig'keit. Lady, there's something wrong with your son. Normal kids don't do such things. You need to learn proper discipline methods too.
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amother
Coffee
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Wed, Sep 05 2018, 9:58 am
| Maya wrote: | Your child whacked his rebbi’s behind and his bus rebbi’s face, and you’re laughing and justifying potching in school.
You and your child both need professional intervention. |
Maya, as usual, your perception is completely off kilter. Where did I say I was laughing? He actually recieved a very stern talking to, and admitted he'd been wrong. And by "sticky hand" I meant those toys, not HIS hand. He was flinging it around and it went in the bus rebbie's face. He didn't hit his bus rebbie.
Once again, I am reminded why this site is really not a place that I should be.
Here, the perverted is made normal, and the normal perverted.
Yes, my son is normal. Normal kids are delicious and yummy -- but can make trouble as well. I am perfectly familiar with diagnoses such as ADD and ADHD, and he has neither. He usually channels his energy into positive, productive tasks and is not wild and all over the place on daily basis. Have you never in your life lost yourself in the moment? It happens to even the best of us -- unless, of course, we walk around like sedated zombies, medicating ourselves when we don't need it. There are kids that need it. This is not one. As his rebbie says: He has energy, but he's 98% voile. No child is perfect, and a ruch shtus can come upon anyone.
It is medicating a child who does not need it that kills self esteem.
It is yelling and screaming and hitting in anger -- none of which has ever been done to him in cheder. If you know anything about halacha, you know that it is permitted to potch, but never in anger. It is forbidden to raise a hand to a child in the moment that one sees red.
Of course, a child can never be made a punching bag, but there are infrequent times that it is the right educational tool. Children need to be shown an overflowing of love -- but also know that there is a time and place for a light potch if needed.
Of course, if your secularly-influenced modern thinking tells you that a potch is never, ever allowed to be used, then you'll never agree with me. That's okay. It doesn't make you right.
I don't need your agreement.
I don't need your rebuke, your assessment or anything else you have to "offer."
You live your life the way you feel is best, and I'll live mine.
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amother
Lawngreen
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Wed, Sep 05 2018, 10:07 am
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Amother coffee, having your child evaluated doesn't mean being medicated. Perhaps he needs to be taught some social skills. Maybe he needs to do certain exercises, maybe he needs to be taught impulse control. There are so many things to do besides medication. Don't make it sound like his actions are normal. There's the normal lebedig what kids do & there's the stuff your son did which are not normal.
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Maya
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Wed, Sep 05 2018, 10:10 am
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Lol. You’re acting as if I’m the only one against hitting because of my modern secular influences and everyone else here is totally game. One poster here agreed with you, while everyone else did not. But sure, pretend it’s only my warped views.
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amother
Coffee
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Wed, Sep 05 2018, 10:11 am
| Maya wrote: | | Lol. You’re acting as if I’m the only one against hitting because of my modern secular influences and everyone else here is totally game. One poster here agreed with you, while everyone else did not. But sure, pretend it’s only my warped views. |
Actually, at that point I was addressing everyone who responded with shock. Frankly, the majority of people here are secularly-influenced modern thinkers. Most heimishe people are not on this forum. I shouldn't be either. Gonna work on that.
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amother
Bisque
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Wed, Sep 05 2018, 10:23 am
| amother wrote: | Maya, as usual, your perception is completely off kilter. Where did I say I was laughing? He actually recieved a very stern talking to, and admitted he'd been wrong. And by "sticky hand" I meant those toys, not HIS hand. He was flinging it around and it went in the bus rebbie's face. He didn't hit his bus rebbie.
Once again, I am reminded why this site is really not a place that I should be.
Here, the perverted is made normal, and the normal perverted.
Yes, my son is normal. Normal kids are delicious and yummy -- but can make trouble as well. I am perfectly familiar with diagnoses such as ADD and ADHD, and he has neither. He usually channels his energy into positive, productive tasks and is not wild and all over the place on daily basis. Have you never in your life lost yourself in the moment? It happens to even the best of us -- unless, of course, we walk around like sedated zombies, medicating ourselves when we don't need it. There are kids that need it. This is not one. As his rebbie says: He has energy, but he's 98% voile. No child is perfect, and a ruch shtus can come upon anyone.
It is medicating a child who does not need it that kills self esteem.
It is yelling and screaming and hitting in anger -- none of which has ever been done to him in cheder. If you know anything about halacha, you know that it is permitted to potch, but never in anger. It is forbidden to raise a hand to a child in the moment that one sees red.
Of course, a child can never be made a punching bag, but there are infrequent times that it is the right educational tool. Children need to be shown an overflowing of love -- but also know that there is a time and place for a light potch if needed.
Of course, if your secularly-influenced modern thinking tells you that a potch is never, ever allowed to be used, then you'll never agree with me. That's okay. It doesn't make you right.
I don't need your agreement.
I don't need your rebuke, your assessment or anything else you have to "offer."
You live your life the way you feel is best, and I'll live mine. |
I work in a heimeshe cheder. One that is mentioned on this thead. Your son is not behaving normal. Resist all you want, but you are hurting your son. He may not need medication, but he NEEDS an evaluation. What are you so afraid of?
Throwing toys on the bus is not behavior that is condoned. The bus rebbe does not deserve to be hit with toys.
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Maya
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Wed, Sep 05 2018, 10:27 am
| amother wrote: | | Actually, at that point I was addressing everyone who responded with shock. Frankly, the majority of people here are secularly-influenced modern thinkers. Most heimishe people are not on this forum. I shouldn't be either. Gonna work on that. |
Sure, run away because people are saying that it’s not okay to hit a child at school.
👋🏼
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amother
Lawngreen
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Wed, Sep 05 2018, 10:39 am
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Amother coffee, I think that there are more heimish posters than modern posters. But either way, this behavior is not ok neither In heimish school nor in modern schools. Not even in public schools!
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amother
Firebrick
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Wed, Sep 05 2018, 10:56 am
OP Just saw on Instagram @queentzirel that she's sending to Stein Yeshiva.
It seems that it is a drive, but maybe it would fit your needs.
I don't know anything about this school but just throwing it out there if it might be helpful.
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