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Fear by Bob Woodward
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Fox




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 05 2018, 9:48 pm
Clarissa wrote:
What a strange question. You're surprised that some people don't like or respect him? You somehow think that everyone loves this guy? It doesn't matter what news you watch or read, how can you not know that plenty of people think he's awful?

I think the observation is based on the fact that Trump enjoys higher approval ratings among observant Jews than in the general population and garnered a high percentage of votes in frum precincts in 2016.


Last edited by Fox on Wed, Sep 05 2018, 9:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Cheiny




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 05 2018, 9:48 pm
Maya wrote:
I’m much more baffled by the number of Trump supporters. Very few people are really benefiting from his policies, and if anyone blindly regurgitates media talking points and fake news, that’s a much bigger issue on the right.


Why don’t you enlighten us as to how you benefitted from obama’s PolicieS (other than if you got obamacare)
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Cheiny




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 05 2018, 9:49 pm
SixOfWands wrote:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/05/opinion/trump-white-house-anonymous-resistance.html

Written by a senior official in the Trump administration who described Trump's leadership as “impetuous, adversarial, petty and ineffective” and cited “unsung heroes” and “adults in the room” who tried to prevent disaster. At one point, the official wrote, there was talk of the cabinet invoking the 25th Amendment to declare Mr. Trump unable to discharge his duties, but no one wanted a constitutional crisis.

Not to mention the lawsuit against the Trump Foundation

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/0......html

But yes, we all benefit from health care. From compassionate government programs. From regulations that protect our environment.

ETA -- we also all benefit from a free and vigorous press, which Trump is doing his utmost to destroy. From people being able to protest -- whether or not I agree with them -- which the current administration finds "embarrassing." ("I think it's embarrassing for the country to allow protesters ....") Unless, of course, they're white nationalists; some of them are very find people.


You forget one major point: the source is ANONYMOUS.’Nuff said.
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Cheiny




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 05 2018, 9:50 pm
Jeanette wrote:
I'm glad you brought up the NYT article. I'm really questioning their judgment in printing this. Why not tell this anonymous official that either you say it under your own name or we dont print it? Hard core Trumpers will call it fake news anyway, and the rest of us dont heed an anonymous op ed to tell us Trump is unfit.

If the purpose is to reassure us that adults are in charge, how does this op ed accomplish that? Does whoever it is think he can print this and then go back to the status quo of protecting America from its president? By going public isn't he undermining his own ability to continue doing that? Does he want an uprising?

There are constitutional remedies to remove an unfit president. If Trump is unfit, come out publically and say so. If you're trying to pull the fire alarm you can't hide your identity or whereabouts from the firefighters. What is NOT constitutional is to continue to work and cover for a president you know isn't up to the job.


Couldn’t agree more,
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southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 05 2018, 9:58 pm
Cheiny wrote:
I’d say the latter....


But Cheiny,

Many conservatives all sound the same as well, as though they have all read a playbook of how they have to think so if you are a conservative, you must believe that the Confederacy should never disappear from the public consciousness. And as a great great granddaughter of the Confederacy, I hate it. And I am politically conservative. I like my tax cuts.
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Fox




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 05 2018, 10:07 pm
southernbubby wrote:
Many conservatives all sound the same as well, as though they have all read a playbook of how they have to think so if you are a conservative, you must believe that the Confederacy should never disappear from the public consciousness.

I'm not sure who you're listening to or reading, but this is not what I'm hearing from conservative outlets. The objection is not necessarily to the outcome, but the process: the mob mentality and the reflexive accusation of racism against anyone with a nuanced opinion.
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southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 05 2018, 10:12 pm
Fox wrote:
I'm not sure who you're listening to or reading, but this is not what I'm hearing from conservative outlets. The objection is not necessarily to the outcome, but the process: the mob mentality and the reflexive accusation of racism against anyone with a nuanced opinion.


Who am I listening to? I am southernbubby, you know, from the south.
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Jeanette




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 05 2018, 10:30 pm
Quote:
He delegates; has insanely high performance standards; and fires quickly when those standards aren't met. For example, Trump is one of the most hands-off Presidents in recent memory when it comes to the DOD. Mattis runs the show. 

The Woodward and NYT pieces only make sense if Trump were actively involved in minutiae, and there's just no evidence that's the case. 



These two statements are a stira minei uvei.

He has ridiculously high standards and fires instantly if those standards aren't met, but is also the most hands off president in history.

If he's so hands off, who is setting those high standards and ensuring they're met?

Why has he been whining publicly about firing Jeff Sessions for the better part of a year but hasn't done it yet?

Where are the insanely high standards of the White House on display? How long did it take to fire Scott Pruitt? Why did Omarosa have a job to begin with and what was it she did anyway? Why was a serial spouse abuser allowed to stay on long after his record was known?

I think you should stick to Israel, the economy and Rubashkin for why you still support trump. Taking about his insanely high standards just sounds foolish.
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southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 05 2018, 10:41 pm
Cheiny wrote:
Why don’t you enlighten us as to how you benefitted from obama’s PolicieS (other than if you got obamacare)



Cash for clunkers.

A kid who was still on our insurance after he got married.
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Fox




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 05 2018, 10:49 pm
Jeanette wrote:
These two statements are a stira minei uvei.

He has ridiculously high standards and fires instantly if those standards aren't met, but is also the most hands off president in history.

If he's so hands off, who is setting those high standards and ensuring they're met?

Why has he been whining publicly about firing Jeff Sessions for the better part of a year but hasn't done it yet?

Where are the insanely high standards of the White House on display? How long did it take to fire Scott Pruitt? Why did Omarosa have a job to begin with and what was it she did anyway? Why was a serial spouse abuser allowed to stay on long after his record was known?

I think you should stick to Israel, the economy and Rubashkin for why you still support trump. Taking about his insanely high standards just sounds foolish.

Maybe "demanding" standards is more accurate. "High" standards is too easily confused with "standards I agree with."

But managers who are good at delegation are still capable of determining whether goals are being met. You or I may not agree with the goals or how they're achieved, but that's a different discussion. Trump doesn't overrule Mattis on military strategy, but if ISIS gains ground, there will need to be explanation. And if Trump finds the explanation unconvincing, Mattis will be gone.

I'm not saying this is good or bad -- simply that this is the way Trump works, has always worked, and why it makes the Woodward and NYT narratives suspect.

As for the serial abuser, perhaps he was being given cover while preparing a run for MN AG.
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WhatFor




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 05 2018, 10:52 pm
southernbubby wrote:
[youtube]randy rainbow impeached[/youtube]

I can't get this to copy/paste properly but Randy has a point. This is not to say that I like some of what Trump has done such as freeing Rubashkin but he doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in his leadership ability.


Is this the one you were looking for?



I personally like his spoof on Modern Major General.

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Jeanette




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 05 2018, 10:56 pm
Fox wrote:
Maybe "demanding" standards is more accurate. "High" standards is too easily confused with "standards I agree with."

But managers who are good at delegation are still capable of determining whether goals are being met. You or I may not agree with the goals or how they're achieved, but that's a different discussion. Trump doesn't overrule Mattis on military strategy, but if ISIS gains ground, there will need to be explanation. And if Trump finds the explanation unconvincing, Mattis will be gone.

I'm not saying this is good or bad -- simply that this is the way Trump works, has always worked, and why it makes the Woodward and NYT narratives suspect.

As for the serial abuser, perhaps he was being given cover while preparing a run for MN AG.


Still not making sense.

Trump is not known as a particularly good manager or delegator. He's known for favoring personal loyalty above all other qualifications which is why noticeably corrupt or incompetent staffers were allowed to stay on long past their use-by dates.

I dont know, maybe loyalty to Trump is what you mean by "demanding" standards that we may disagree on.
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chaiz




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Sep 06 2018, 5:18 am
Jeanette wrote:
Still not making sense.

Trump is not known as a particularly good manager or delegator. He's known for favoring personal loyalty above all other qualifications which is why noticeably corrupt or incompetent staffers were allowed to stay on long past their use-by dates.

I dont know, maybe loyalty to Trump is what you mean by "demanding" standards that we may disagree on.


As per his tweet that he kept Omarosa on staff because of her loyalties to him. And how he is all mad now at Sessions because of his investigating republican congressmen too close before the election. This is not fake news because he tweeted this himself. I don't see how that is a good manager or delegator. (Never mind the fact that constantly firing people doesn't show good managerial skills to most of the developed world.)
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Sep 06 2018, 9:37 am
Fox wrote:
I think the observation is based on the fact that Trump enjoys higher approval ratings among observant Jews than in the general population and garnered a high percentage of votes in frum precincts in 2016.


And as frum Jews, it's imperative to qualify the high approval ratings as appreciating what he's doing vs. loving and trusting him and unquestionably supporting him. I would say the latter is never in order - al tivtechu benidivim - but I remember when the Chr. religious right came out for him way too early. Did not make a kiddush Hashem in my book. I can't see a path for a frum person to be anything but a reluctant Trumper, if that.
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Clarissa




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Sep 06 2018, 9:38 am
As I often say to my husband, I will never understand frum Jews supporting him.
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Sep 06 2018, 9:46 am
Clarissa wrote:
As I often say to my husband, I will never understand frum Jews supporting him.


There's a writer/editor at Mishpacha magazine, Eytan Kobre, who has had some of the most cogent perspective out there.
As one reluctant Trumper I know said, she didn't vote for him in the primaries, even though it was a done deal. But when she voted in Nov. she voted from the bottom of the ballot up, hoping against hope that Moshiach would have come in the interim. She still second guesses herself.
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Clarissa




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Sep 06 2018, 9:47 am
PinkFridge wrote:
She still second guesses herself.
As well she should.

I'll look up that writer from Mishpacha.
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keym




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Sep 06 2018, 9:51 am
Clarissa wrote:
As I often say to my husband, I will never understand frum Jews supporting him.


And that's what I was saying earlier. There's a difference between supporting him personally or morally- which I don't know anyone who does, and supporting some of his policies and hoping and wishing the Republican Party can cough up someone better for 2020. (Fat chance, but one could hope).
Every frum Jew I know falls in the latter category.
Which changes the conversation from a Trump conversation to just a good ole Democrat vs Republican conversation. Leaving Trump, Hillary, Bill, and everyone else out of it.
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ectomorph




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Sep 06 2018, 12:13 pm
Trump is the best president in USA history and will end up on mt. Rushmore. If you want to serve Hashem, you'll support trump. I don't understand any opposition to him or his policies.


The people who oppose Trump are uniformly baby killers who oppose Israel and want to kill all white people.

I am not exaggerating one whit more tJan those liberals.
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Jeanette




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Sep 06 2018, 12:37 pm
ectomorph wrote:
Trump is the best president in USA history and will end up on mt. Rushmore. If you want to serve Hashem, you'll support trump. I don't understand any opposition to him or his policies.


The people who oppose Trump are uniformly baby killers who oppose Israel and want to kill all white people.

I am not exaggerating one whit more tJan those liberals.


Well done, Ectomorph! I literally cannot tell which side you are, and your last five pages of posts dont give me any clues.

Don't make me go back further than that. Wink
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