askmoses and question about bris mila

zuncompany

Sun, Oct 24 2004, 11:54 am

There is a Jewish woman going around Jewish internet boards saying anti bris milah stuff. She is very viligant and will do anything to convince Jewish mothers not to give their new sons a bris. When women say they have she attacks sayying horrible things. One of the things that really upsets me personally is that she qoutes askmoses.com saying they told her it is not necc. And gave her all these loopholes. I highly doubt it. I am trying to get on and ask them in a logical way all the same questions and follow up questions. Than site this conversation to invalidate her remarks. However every time I go to the site it says leave us a message. They are never available. Anyone know how to get someone live? I could easily ask my Rabbi or Rav the same questions and get the same answers, however she qoutes askmoses so I think I need to too. Anyone can you help me here??
Sara

gryp

Sun, Oct 24 2004, 12:05 pm

there are lots of Rabbis there, why dont you ask her which one she asked and then you can go on at the time when that Rabbi is there to answer questions and you can ask him.

gryp

Sun, Oct 24 2004, 12:14 pm

usually they ask you to look through their information on the site and if you still have a question then you can ask them. maybe they were working on the website when you tried. I know a few people who answer questions there and many times I substituted too there.

zuncompany

Mon, Oct 25 2004, 2:07 am

I talked to Mrs. Shaffer and she was very helpful. I than found out and saw the trascript of the conversation this woman had with Mrs. Dinka Kumer. I went back on and actually got her. I didn't even ask for her. I had a long conversation with her and than she actually went on that board and refuted all that this woman had said. turns out she had cut and pasted the convo. She left out some key points. I was also advised to talk to my Rabbi and Rav. I did and was able to post some good information. G-d willing people who are on the fense about giving their sons a bris milah will not listen to this woman and go ahead with it. This one woman will not listen. G-d willing others will though.
Sara

happyduck

Mon, Oct 25 2004, 11:16 pm

honestly, if someoen is just looking to pick a fight, there is no reason to continue. Let her take her pot shots. At first, I thought she was seriosuly looking for emes, but once I realized what she was up to I realized there was no reason to continue trying... there is no inyan for tochachah if you know the person is not going to listen.

zuncompany

Mon, Oct 25 2004, 11:49 pm

(happyduck also posts there and knows about the whole situation.)

The problem (and the reason why I went after this) is cause she says she has a halachic loophole. She says she was told this by the askmoses people. This posed a problem for me. She is telling people misinformation. The sad thing is... people have chosen not to give their sons a bris milah in the past because of her and her loophole. OY! I asked my Rabbi and he said to do whatever I could to post correct information. Not to go after her, but to go after her loophole. I think I did that. I hope G-d willing:)
Sara

Nechama

Tue, Oct 26 2004, 4:08 pm

Here is a loophole.
To preface. I am adamantly pro bris milah (duh) Rolling Eyes

And I work with women who do not want to give their sons a bris, and my husband has taken a number of adult males to have their bris done, both full bris and hatofas dam.
Okay, now,
It is the FATHER's responsibiility to give his son a bris.
(Argument against that = Tzipporah gave her son his bris when her husband, Moshe, could not.)
If there is 'no' father, it then becomes the son's resposibility.
If the son is underage, it becomes THE COMMUNITY's responsibility.

Avraham avinu stands at shharei shomayim and checks for bris milah. One cannot get in without it. (Not counting those who did not have it done out of ignorance)
Even a BABY who dies before his bris is given a bris milah AFTER death by a mohel hired by the chevrah kadisha.

I am very glad that you wre able to work out the askmoses issue.

Ozmom

Sun, Oct 31 2004, 12:33 am

whoever she is let her take her vehemence and agravation and go after the arabs that circumcise their daughters which is truly shocking and incomparable with our bris which hurts the mother more than the baby. Smile

.
They are mutilating their daughters for the sake of keeping them subservient to the men and punishing them for being women

zuncompany

Sun, Oct 31 2004, 1:00 am

Oh but Ozmom, she thinks that a bris is just as bad as female circ. OY!

The loophole she claimed was two fold. The first was that her husband was not Jewish so therefore had no responsiblity to see to the bris, so she claimed it was her sons responsiblity. WRONG! If the father is not around or not Jewish or whatnot it becomes the mother's responsiblity. If the mother can't for some reason its the communities!
Her second part was that there are no "consequences" (sp??) as long as her son chose to have a bris later. If he chooses not later, than it means he doesn't want to be Jewish... OYOYOY!!!! Boy was she wrong too about this. I got all the answers and tried to prove her wrong.

Interesting thing... she never once responded to me. She only responded to other posters and what they had to say. I think she realized I was giving her some emes and she couldn't argue with emes. IY"H others read it and it effected them and made them realize the conseqences of not giving their sons a bris for both them and the child.
sara

Rivka

Mon, Nov 01 2004, 4:13 pm

Did she not realise it is a lot more painful and cruel for an older male person to have to have a bris coz her as a mother she didn't want to do it for her son?
Babies heal quicker and also now they put Emla on the skin to make it numb
so they can't feel it anyway, they cry coz they have their nappy taken off.

To say it is the same as what the Arabs do to their daughters I have heard that before and I think it's sick for people to say that.
It isn't the same at all and I think the name female circumsition is wrong, they should call it something else coz it gives the wrong idea.

zuncompany

Mon, Nov 01 2004, 5:26 pm

I mentioned and many people mentioned it hurts more. She said that it isn't the issue. Her issue is that she doesn't want to impose something on her child. That as parents we don't have the right. OYOYOY!
Sara

Tefila

Tue, Nov 02 2004, 12:32 am

Quote:

Her issue is that she doesn't want to impose something on her child. That as parents we don't have the right. OYOYOY!

Yep it is och n vey to such a democratic society with that way of thinking

Motek

Tue, Nov 02 2004, 9:30 am

I can understand why she says what she says. If (G-d forbid)you don't believe in the Torah, both Written and Oral, as coming from G-d, then you'd have to be crazy, I think, to "mutilate" your baby!

I think the sole issue here is whether the mitzva and the details of the mitzva (who is obligated to do it and when) are G-d given or not.

ForeverYoung
Guest

Tue, Nov 02 2004, 11:59 am

sircumsized man have canser there less often, less uti's, or so I heard, and they give more pleasure to women.

It's very tragic that girls suffer, b/c not only it's more painful, it is always uncomfortable & hurts, b/c an extremely sencitive area is exposed.