We did not look Jewish enough?

amother

Salmon

Thu, Oct 04 2018, 4:35 am

So DH and I had yesterday a day out. We were staying with our family in a very frum haredi place.
We went to a bookshop to get some holy soferim. DH was haredi when he grew up and is now' MO, no black head only suit on shabbos and YT and. So I saw a beautiful leather bound Tehilim with no price and I said to DH '' will u ask the price?'' and he did and I was browsing. He comes to the man behind the desk and he says: ''That is a book of psalms we call it tehelim'' DH ''I know I just want to know how many it costs'' ''25, but why don't you take one with english translation?'' And DH was kinda insulted and me too because ok we don't look charedi but we are really jewish. So my DH was totally like: ''I've been on yeshivah, just because I'm not in a suit doesn't make me less Jewish and I dawent a few days ago right next to you''. He was insulted and I still don't get it. We never get it in our neighborhood... Just don't judge a book by its cover

FranticFrummie

Thu, Oct 04 2018, 4:46 am

It sounds like the shop keeper never steps outside of his daled amot. What can you do?

Just smile and carry on. If you try to educate the whole world you'll go nuts.

amother

Ecru

Thu, Oct 04 2018, 4:51 am

Not sure what you don't get. The man behind the desk wasn't given the education not all frum Jewish men wear his uniform.

shabbatiscoming

Thu, Oct 04 2018, 5:08 am

Welcome to insular bubble communities, where people literally never see frum people who look different than them.
Was this by any chance in israel? It sure sounds that was, said sadly, to me. Ive experienced this too. Its pure ignorance.

amother

Blonde

Thu, Oct 04 2018, 5:11 am

Op, I understand your frustration 100%.
Some people are just a bit too sheltered or narrow minded.
Dh once jumped into a random hareidi shteible to daven ma'ariv on the way. It looked quite clear that they were not counting him in the minyan. He wears a knitted kippah and colored shirts.

amother

Salmon

Thu, Oct 04 2018, 5:27 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Prestwich it was in Manchester and it was really weird, it would not have happened in London where you see women in trousers and so on in Kosher Kingdom and Torah Treasures and no one watch you.

amother

Coffee

Thu, Oct 04 2018, 5:34 am

It has nothing to do with narrow minded, sometimes you can't see the difference between a Jewish & secular man. Im sure that secular men come into the shop looking to buy these things. OP, be honest, does your husband look like a Jewish guy or not??
It like sometimes women get all insulted that some kid asked if they're a "[gentile]". The kid didn't mean to insult, but if they dont look Jewish they can't be mad that a kid asked.

amother

Salmon

Thu, Oct 04 2018, 5:41 am

amother wrote:

What is that for a question how my DH looks like? But if you want to know ok, DH wears a kippa has dark hair very dark hair and very dark eyes and he has long wimpers.

amother

Coffee

Thu, Oct 04 2018, 5:45 am

You're wondering if DH doesn't look Jewish enough, sometimes instead of being insulted we have to ask that of ourselves.

Sadie

Thu, Oct 04 2018, 6:03 am

amother wrote:

Was this guy a kid or an adult? If you read the OP she says her husband asked the price of something and the employee didn’t answer his question, instead answering a question he wasn’t asked (and implied that the customer was ignorant about what he wanted)

Bad customer service and very rude.

DrMom

Thu, Oct 04 2018, 6:28 am

amother wrote:

You're wondering if DH doesn't look Jewish enough, sometimes instead of being insulted we have to ask that of ourselves.

Yeah, maybe he should get a nasal augmentation surgery so he looks more like this. You know, that typical Jewish look:

Yocheved_G

Thu, Oct 04 2018, 8:00 am

You & husband were insulted because the employee explained the significance of the book & offered one with translation?
That sounds like helpful customer service..

Iymnok

Thu, Oct 04 2018, 8:09 am

Yocheved_G wrote:

You & husband were insulted because the employee explained the significance of the book & offered one with translation?
That sounds like helpful customer service..

No, good customer service would be telling him the price, I.e answering his question.
Good customer service does not mean inserting your opinion of their interest.
Besides, there are secular people who are fluent in Hebrew.

thunderstorm

Thu, Oct 04 2018, 8:34 am

This story sounds so strange. You see ALL kinds of people in seforim stores all the time. I don't know what city you were in but I am very surprised that the employee is that ignorant or close minded. The only thing I could think of is that possibly this guy was taught to do "kiruv" at every opportunity and decided this was a good opportunity without thinking that this guy is frum.
Also, besides for in Israel, is the term "charedi" used? What does that really mean? I always thought charedi referred to the super frum (or what would be termed Farfrumt around here) Someone please define the term Charedi.

BadTichelDay

Thu, Oct 04 2018, 8:38 am

Iymnok wrote:

Yes. There are several millions of them and they are called Israelis ... Mr. Green

(Okay, okay, there are also lots of frum Israelis, like me. Just had to make that point)

dankbar

Thu, Oct 04 2018, 9:32 am

Chareidim are any frum orthodox people no? Do they have too be to the most extreme to be called chareidi?

amother

Wine

Thu, Oct 04 2018, 10:38 am

I understand that you are hurt, but there is no need to take it personally and start casting aspersions on the salesman. Perhaps he was just trying to be helpful.

My brother working in an electronics store and once got written up because a customer was insulted when he offered a cheaper version of the device because it was just as good as the more expensive option. The customer was so hurt - thinking that my brother had assumed he can't afford the more expensive option. That was not at all true!

Aylat

Thu, Oct 04 2018, 10:46 am

amother wrote:

Prestwich it was in Manchester and it was really weird, it would not have happened in London where you see women in trousers and so on in Kosher Kingdom and Torah Treasures and no one watch you.

That is so weird, I've been to most of the seforim shops in Manchester and I can't imagine that happening. Lots of types of Jews shop there. Not doubting your story, just saying I think it's not a common thing to happen. Maybe it wasn't the regular bookseller.

Raisin

Thu, Oct 04 2018, 11:24 am

I always see women with trousers and uncovered hair in the kosher and Jewish shops in Manchester, both in Prestwich and Broughton Park. I don't think the man is being rude...he obviously thought you were a nice Jewish family who may not be fluent in hebrew and would benefit from a translated tehillim.

amother

Lime

Thu, Oct 04 2018, 12:29 pm

amother wrote:

You're wondering if DH doesn't look Jewish enough, sometimes instead of being insulted we have to ask that of ourselves.

Jewish people come in many shapes and sizes, or colors and mode of dress if you prefer.

I'll tell you a story, but please bear with me for some background.

My father's parents are both Holocaust survivors who arrived in their new country with nothing. B"H they were successful in life and were very involved in building the community where they ended up. They founded a thriving shul and a yeshiva and a day school among many other worthwhile institutions. If I mentioned their names, I'm sure there are Imamothers who would recognize my family which is why I'm staying anonymous. My father is a sincerely frum man who is extremely yashar in his business dealings. He never misses a minyan even if he stays up half the night working. He's constantly going to shiurim and learning in his not so spare time. He has also been instrumental in building the community where he and my mother moved to when they were a young married couple.

My mother comes from a long line of frum Jews who were the epitome of mesiras nefesh for Torah. Her maternal grandfather used to lose his job every week because he wouldn't work on Shabbos and her father went through great lengths to keep Torah and mitzvos during WWII and was a huge supporter of yeshivos during his lifetime. My mother covers her hair and helped establish a new mikvah in her community so women wouldn't have to travel to the next community and wait on line.

My parents have an open home and welcome friends and family and even strangers from all over the world and all walks of life. They have raised my siblings and I to be good frum Jews as well. Now, I'm leaving out a lot of details for reasons of time and space and because some of you would totally recognize the family names if I told some stories.

Imagine my father's shock when he went to a house in Brooklyn (I won't specify the neighborhood) to meet someone for business reasons and the young boy who answered the door called out to his parents that there was a "shaigitz" who came to visit. Maybe my father doesn't look like he lives in Brooklyn, but to raise children to see a man wearing a a kippa and call him a shaigitz is a terrible thing. A kippa is a kippa, whether it be black velvet or suede or a kippa sruga! It symbolizes that the man wearing it accepts ol malchus shamayim and is the hallmark of a frum Jewish man. Does anyone really think Hashem cares about the color of a man's shirt, whether it's white or blue or checked? I would hope that what is in a man's heart and his deeds would be far more significant. (This goes for women too, obviously, but I don't want to get into issues of tznius in this post.)