My 10 year old daughter wants to know....

amother

Scarlet

Thu, Oct 04 2018, 2:20 pm

Yesterday DD asked me why men don't always wear shirts but women always have tops on. This is not a tznius question. She's asking about people she sees in the street jogging and biking or people at the beach. I had no idea what to answer her. Because women's breasts are thought of as s-xual objects and men's aren't? I'm not going there with her. What do I answer? I told her I never really thought about it and would get back to her. HELP!

Chayalle

Thu, Oct 04 2018, 2:24 pm

Because women have more innate tznius than men do.

When Malkas S'hva visited Shlomo Hamelech, she asked him to resolve various riddles. One involved her bringing in a group of identically-dressed children, and asking him to determine which were boys and which were girls. Shlomo Hamelech had nuts brought in and scattered. Half of the children lifted their hems to fill them with the nuts, and the other half were more modest and scooped them only in their hands. He said those were the girls, and he was right.

amother

Apricot

Thu, Oct 04 2018, 2:51 pm

Simple. Because women have breasts that have to be covered at all times except when nursing Infront of family members.

amother

Vermilion

Thu, Oct 04 2018, 3:35 pm

I would just say because women have private parts on top and men don't. And private parts need to be kept private. You can use the proper word if you want.

imasinger

Thu, Oct 04 2018, 3:40 pm

My kids think shirtless men are as untznius as shirtless women.

I see no reason to debate the point. If I were asked what your DD asked, I'd probably just say, "women's chests are considered more private by many people than men's chests, but frum people don't go shirtless in public, either male or female."

Ruchel

Thu, Oct 04 2018, 4:15 pm

My country says no for women and yes for men. Yes it's unfair but I see why.
I do find topless men disgusting in the street. You're not in your garden!!

amother

Orange

Thu, Oct 04 2018, 4:50 pm

amother wrote:

I would just say because women have private parts on top and men don't. And private parts need to be kept private. You can use the proper word if you want.

how do you explain this? men also have breasts. why are theirs not private? both of our lower regions are private so how do you explain how our upper regions are not the same

amother

Saddlebrown

Thu, Oct 04 2018, 5:30 pm

amother wrote:

how do you explain this? men also have breasts. why are theirs not private? both of our lower regions are private so how do you explain how our upper regions are not the same

Nipples aren't breasts.

amother

Vermilion

Thu, Oct 04 2018, 5:33 pm

amother wrote:

how do you explain this? men also have breasts. why are theirs not private? both of our lower regions are private so how do you explain how our upper regions are not the same

I doubt a ten year old would ask this, but if they do I would just say women's chests are considered private while men's are not. It's just the way it is. We don't either explain why private parts are private. Though you could add in something there about it being part of body safety.

FranticFrummie

Thu, Oct 04 2018, 5:34 pm

amother wrote:

Nipples aren't breasts.

You've never seen man-boobs? Consider yourself lucky.

amother

Powderblue

Thu, Oct 04 2018, 5:39 pm

amother wrote:

Nipples aren't breasts.

Technically you're right. But today's non jewish censoring society (like on Instagram) will allow a picture of a bare chested female through as long as her nipples are censored out... so it's not the breasts per se it's the nipples.

amother

Chartreuse

Thu, Oct 04 2018, 5:40 pm

You can tell her that for men it's not uncomfortable but for women it is. I would think running and jogging would be pretty uncomfortable.

amother

Scarlet

Thu, Oct 04 2018, 8:06 pm

Chayalle wrote:

How do I say this when they see women at the beach with their butts and breasts hanging out? The men don't have the back of their bathingsuits just a string up their butts. So this unfortunately doesn't make sense.

amother

Scarlet

Thu, Oct 04 2018, 8:08 pm

amother wrote:

Simple. Because women have breasts that have to be covered at all times except when nursing Infront of family members.

Technically speaking, men have breasts too. And when you say "have to be covered" - has to according to whom? And why? I need this to be logical to a 10 year old.

amother

Scarlet

Thu, Oct 04 2018, 8:10 pm

imasinger wrote:

As do mine. They don't understand why men go around "naked". But my daughter has seen enough that men going topless seems to be accepted in many situation and not so for women and wants to understand the double standard.

amother

White

Thu, Oct 04 2018, 8:16 pm

amother wrote:

Where I live this double standard was recognized and over 20 years ago women were legally permitted to walk around topless.

They don't for various reasons. I'm not sure which ones your 10 year would relate to. An easy one is - because its uncommon to do so, people stare. and most women don't like to be stared at.

oneofakind

Thu, Oct 04 2018, 9:13 pm

Even a 10 year old can understand that there are different rules for different people even if it's not logical. Women wear makeup. Men don't. Why is a woman's upper body considered private? Because.

amother

Gold

Thu, Oct 04 2018, 9:58 pm

Chayalle wrote:

Innate, or conditioned?...