PSA to Working Women

amother

Gray

Mon, Oct 15 2018, 11:23 am

There are two things I have noticed about work emails that women do often that weaken your position and don't look professional.

Using the word "just". Almost every time this word is used it can be eliminated. The only purpose it serves is weakening your sentence and looks like you are apologizing for what you are saying. Remove it from your vocabulary.

Another mistake- saying thank you after an exchange with nothing else to add. It is entirely superfluous.

groovy1224

Mon, Oct 15 2018, 11:35 am

It's weird to me that this is directed towards women, when I know lots of people that don't have the best email ettiquette, but okay.

And I disagree that it's superfluous to say thank you even if you are not adding anything new to the email thread. I'm a professional and 90% of the people I email are professionals as well and people reply 'thank you' all the time. It's not expected but it is a normal pleasantry.

amother

Ecru

Mon, Oct 15 2018, 11:36 am

amother wrote:

Can you just explain, please, a little more?
Thank you.

seeker

Mon, Oct 15 2018, 12:01 pm

It's addressed to women because this is a female-only forum.
And I agree that "just" is often extra and weak, but disagree about thank you. When in doubt, thank. What does that even mean "with nothing else to add?" What do you need to add to "thank you?"

1Life2Live

Mon, Oct 15 2018, 12:39 pm

I think it's worthwhile to spend some time looking how other people in your company write emails. If most people higher up than me take the time to reply "thank you" then you can bet I will follow suit and do the same.

I've noticed that people (including men) use the word "just" to sound more polite. I think it all depends on the type of email, who you're sending it to and what you want the outcome to be.

Fox

Mon, Oct 15 2018, 12:44 pm

Women tend to use qualifiers in conversation more than men -- words, phrases, or syntax that make statements sound less emphatic or water down the statement in some way.

For example, a woman is likely to write/say:

"In my opinion, the sales figures do not support opening an additional office at this time."

Whereas a man is more likely to write/say:

"The sales figures don't support adding another office."

While women in general tend to use more qualifiers, it's like any other gender-based characteristic; there are people who are outliers. If you want to see this in action, just read Imamother threads. Women who communicate in a more direct, stereotypically masculine style are much more likely to be accused of being hurtful, judgmental, etc.

Imamother A: "Perhaps therapy would help you work through some of the issues you're having with this difficult child."

Imamother B: "You really need therapy for this."

Guess who gets pounced upon as being rude and insensitive?

It's good to be bilingual, whether it means knowing different languages or just being able to switch your communication style as needed. A woman who is able to communicate forcefully when the occasion demands it has an advantage, as does a man who is capable of softening his forcefulness when doing so will get better results.

amother

Gray

Mon, Oct 15 2018, 1:22 pm

groovy1224 wrote:

I directed it to women because it's a women's site and because these are things women do more often than men.

As for "thank you" I guess it is more ambiguous but generally if you had a whole exchange and there is nothing more to add to the conversation, sending a thank you isn't necessary. I guess if the culture is to say thank you then you should but I find that it's mostly the women in the office who do that not the men which makes it a gender thing.

amother

Gray

Mon, Oct 15 2018, 1:31 pm

amother wrote:

I think the OP copied and pasted this here from somewhere else. Pretty sure I've read this elsewhere in the exact same words. It makes the rounds periodically.

I've read this before but no I didn't copy and paste. I work in a large corporation and also work for a small business on the side and therefore come into contact with many women and men. I almost always see these two mistakes made by women and not the men and want to make other women aware of how unprofessional it sounds.

If you send me a bill and ask for confirmation that it's paid and I respond with a screenshot of the check and say see attached there is no reason to follow up with a thank you. We have this exchange every week when you send me the bill. Or if we go back and forth about following up with a client and I respond I will touch base with them tomorrow. You don't need to thank me. I literally get 8 thank yous from this person a day. Completely not necessary and a waste of both our time and looks silly.

amother

Mint

Mon, Oct 15 2018, 1:58 pm

amother wrote:

see thread about expressing gratitude.

It really depends on context. My emails can take an hour+ to write and contain research or advice. I very much appreciate some sort of acknowledgement. Its my currency.

8 suggests the person should consolidate her emails.

I also disagree that "just" is a "mistake". Its an area of improvement for the writer (perhaps).

simcha2

Mon, Oct 15 2018, 2:02 pm

amother wrote:

I think it's a way of acknowledging receipt of your email and recognizing that you spent time. They could just write 'ok' but thank you has an added benefit of showing appreciation.

Metukah

Mon, Oct 15 2018, 2:04 pm

I'm not sure what you mean with 'just'. Can you please give an example?

I don't agree about thank you being superfluous. Gratitude is never superfluous. It is also a way to confirm that your correspondence was read and acknowledged.

seeker

Mon, Oct 15 2018, 2:15 pm

It is definitely appropriate to send "thank you" as an acknowledgement that you've received a communique. I have gotten such emails from numerous professionals and don't think it's weak at all. It is courteous and often expected.

"Just" is flimsy in contexts such as "just wanted to let you know" or "just making sure" when you could say instead " please note that..." Or "please confirm/thank you for confirming."

amother

Gray

Mon, Oct 15 2018, 2:21 pm

Metukah wrote:

"I just want to confirm our appointment" vs "I am confirming our appointment"

"I just wanted to let you know about a bug I found in the program" vs "I found a bug in the program"

"I just want to confirm that you are sending over the paperwork" vs " can you confirm when you will send the paperwork"

I'll try to find the article about thank you. Maybe it can explain it better than me.

groovy1224

Mon, Oct 15 2018, 2:33 pm

amother wrote:

I agree about just. "Just following up.." vs "I am following up.."

It's important (IMO) to follow the tone of the person you are emailing. Someone who gets hundreds of emails a day probably is not interested in opening an email just to see 'Thank you." If ever in doubt, you can usually write "received- thank you"

But most people take it as confirmation that you saw that what they said/sent and are all set.

amother

Mint

Mon, Oct 15 2018, 2:39 pm

amother wrote:

Tone matters. Context matters.

"just" here is annoying - but its the writers attempt to soften the message. You don't want to appear to be a jerk either, or critical.

Ex: Hey Programmer - I came across the following bug when I was using your software - Not sure if its on your list for beta 3 improvements yet. Just FYI. (would be what I would send if my job wasn't to review the programmers work. otherwise - she or he would get a list of review notes).

and regarding the paperwork - if its something we talked about on the phone already... the email would go: Hi person - as per our conversation last week, you agreed to send over the paperwork. What is your expected timeline?

I would be very flustered by such direct emails - from men or women.

amother

Burgundy

Mon, Oct 15 2018, 2:42 pm

I had a writing teacher who had a list of "never use" words. One of those was "just." I write professionally now and I never use the word "just" - there's always a better replacement (unless it's part of casual dialogue where it fits).

I totally disagree with the thank-you point, though. It's common courtesy and I actually find it rude for someone to simply not respond after you sent a document or responded to a question or request.

amother

Maroon

Mon, Oct 15 2018, 3:14 pm

amother wrote:

If you send me a bill and ask for confirmation that it's paid and I respond with a screenshot of the check and say see attached there is no reason to follow up with a thank you. We have this exchange every week when you send me the bill. Or if we go back and forth about following up with a client and I respond I will touch base with them tomorrow. You don't need to thank me. I literally get 8 thank yous from this person a day. Completely not necessary and a waste of both our time and looks silly.

Totally disagree and I'm often on both sides of these types of communications.