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amother
Seashell
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 Wed, Oct 24 2018, 10:08 am
What a waste for people of moderate means to spend so much money for one night so that people who don't really care about going to a simcha can be invited.
If you have the money and it's discretionary income spend it. But I am saddened by people who are borrowing or using money that should be used for retirement, houses, emergency savings or just living go for something like this because of community expectations.
I can't imagine that people who don't have a down payment for a house; are scrimping along without the ability to buy a car; have credit card charges up the wazoo because they can't afford day to day living expenses plus tuition look back and are glad that so much money was spent for a one night simcha as opposed to having that cushion to be spent on non-transitory needs.
Paying for an child's education is an investment in the child's future as the child will then be able to have a more profitable and in general more fulfilling career. Spending large sums is in my opinion like flushing the money down the toilet because it's gone. Giving simcha money for a down payment is another type of investment in a child's future.
My parents did not fund big weddings - they gave us of the kids a down payment for their first house and they also paid for college and professional graduate schools so none of us were saddled with huge student loans that took a lifetime to pay off. Of course we also took out some loans and we were lucky enough to be admitted to quality schools with reasonable tuition so our tuition costs weren't $200,000.
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mommyhood
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Wed, Oct 24 2018, 10:14 am
| watergirl wrote: | | Re: downpayment - we bought our house with only 3% down and it was a Fannie Mae loan with no PMI. These loans do exist. And the seller paid the 3% at closing. So no downpayment. |
Why would the seller be willing to pay the 3%?
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watergirl
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Wed, Oct 24 2018, 10:16 am
| mommyhood wrote: | | Why would the seller be willing to pay the 3%? |
It was part of our negotiations on the sale.
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Amarante
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Wed, Oct 24 2018, 10:17 am
| mommyhood wrote: | | Why would the seller be willing to pay the 3%? |
They theoretically raise the price of the house because all that matters is what the net amount seller is getting. Covering closing costs is another way to help people who don't have cash and therefore the amount is rolled into the mortgage.
I am not an expert but I think some of this stuff is less than kosher because down payments are required as a way to ensure that people have some stake in the house and won't just walk away from the home.
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watergirl
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Wed, Oct 24 2018, 10:23 am
| Amarante wrote: | They theoretically raise the price of the house because all that matters is what the net amount seller is getting. Covering closing costs is another way to help people who don't have cash and therefore the amount is rolled into the mortgage.
I am not an expert but I think some of this stuff is less than kosher because down payments are required as a way to ensure that people have some stake in the house and won't just walk away from the home. |
It was 100% kosher. We has some closing costs but no where near typical. We also got a $1,500 grant to be used towards closing costs from the city for buying in the particular area and $1000 grant for closing costs from the bank because we were first time homebuyers. We went through a neighborhood development org that is part of hud with homebuyers workshops and certificates... not for lazy people. The “steak” in the house is also from the time we had to put into the classes and meetings. And of course a lawyer was there at closing.
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amother
Saddlebrown
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Wed, Oct 24 2018, 10:24 am
| amother wrote: | What a waste for people of moderate means to spend so much money for one night so that people who don't really care about going to a simcha can be invited.
If you have the money and it's discretionary income spend it. But I am saddened by people who are borrowing or using money that should be used for retirement, houses, emergency savings or just living go for something like this because of community expectations.
I can't imagine that people who don't have a down payment for a house; are scrimping along without the ability to buy a car; have credit card charges up the wazoo because they can't afford day to day living expenses plus tuition look back and are glad that so much money was spent for a one night simcha as opposed to having that cushion to be spent on non-transitory needs.
Paying for an child's education is an investment in the child's future as the child will then be able to have a more profitable and in general more fulfilling career. Spending large sums is in my opinion like flushing the money down the toilet because it's gone. Giving simcha money for a down payment is another type of investment in a child's future.
My parents did not fund big weddings - they gave us of the kids a down payment for their first house and they also paid for college and professional graduate schools so none of us were saddled with huge student loans that took a lifetime to pay off. Of course we also took out some loans and we were lucky enough to be admitted to quality schools with reasonable tuition so our tuition costs weren't $200,000. |
Even a small wedding is $20000 or more. Which is a lot of money when you don't have very much to begin with.
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mommyhood
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Wed, Oct 24 2018, 10:33 am
| watergirl wrote: | | It was part of our negotiations on the sale. |
Did you raise the sale price to cover his contribution. I know where I live you have to list your down payment with the offer price and good houses sell almost the minute they're listed so I'm wondering if a seller would agree to that if they had multiple offers.
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watergirl
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Wed, Oct 24 2018, 10:42 am
| mommyhood wrote: | | Did you raise the sale price to cover his contribution. I know where I live you have to list your down payment with the offer price and good houses sell almost the minute they're listed so I'm wondering if a seller would agree to that if they had multiple offers. |
Nope. And we were the first bid AND the house had been on the market for a day.
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amother
Royalblue
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Wed, Oct 24 2018, 1:24 pm
| amother wrote: | What a waste for people of moderate means to spend so much money for one night so that people who don't really care about going to a simcha can be invited.
If you have the money and it's discretionary income spend it. But I am saddened by people who are borrowing or using money that should be used for retirement, houses, emergency savings or just living go for something like this because of community expectations.
I can't imagine that people who don't have a down payment for a house; are scrimping along without the ability to buy a car; have credit card charges up the wazoo because they can't afford day to day living expenses plus tuition look back and are glad that so much money was spent for a one night simcha as opposed to having that cushion to be spent on non-transitory needs.
Paying for an child's education is an investment in the child's future as the child will then be able to have a more profitable and in general more fulfilling career. Spending large sums is in my opinion like flushing the money down the toilet because it's gone. Giving simcha money for a down payment is another type of investment in a child's future.
My parents did not fund big weddings - they gave us of the kids a down payment for their first house and they also paid for college and professional graduate schools so none of us were saddled with huge student loans that took a lifetime to pay off. Of course we also took out some loans and we were lucky enough to be admitted to quality schools with reasonable tuition so our tuition costs weren't $200,000. |
This is not helpful. Most of the people on this thread are trying to spend somewhere around 10k, but multiple children and things add up. The thing is this: Weddings are expensive. Just like houses are. Just like tuition. It's all expensive - ten grand is expensive! And they have to happen. Should we just send all these brides and grooms to City Hall instead?
Also, I could school you (pun intended) about spending so much money on college, when you could go to a state school and get financial and merit scholarships instead. So let's not be saddened about all the "waste" when we can point fingers at other waste, too.
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amother
Saddlebrown
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Wed, Oct 24 2018, 1:28 pm
| amother wrote: | This is not helpful. Most of the people on this thread are trying to spend somewhere around 10k, but multiple children and things add up. The thing is this: Weddings are expensive. Just like houses are. Just like tuition. It's all expensive - ten grand is expensive! And they have to happen. Should we just send all these brides and grooms to City Hall instead?
Also, I could school you (pun intended) about spending so much money on college, when you could go to a state school and get financial and merit scholarships instead. So let's not be saddened about all the "waste" when we can point fingers at other waste, too. |
Here's the thing: In the outside world, people with no money do go to city hall. Or host 20 friends in a restaurant. My friend told me her fiance gave her a choice - they could have a big wedding or buy a house. She chose the house. I was not given that choice and would have benefited far more from (even a partial) down payment on a house. Which I never got. And we got very little in wedding gifts.
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amother
Smokey
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Wed, Oct 24 2018, 9:02 pm
Just want to say to all who have a home or an income - be grateful
People out there like me live in debt, rent their home, and have no clue how they'll marry off.
And many of us work just as hard or harder than others but life's circumstances brought us to this point
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amother
Seashell
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Thu, Oct 25 2018, 7:53 am
| amother wrote: | This is not helpful. Most of the people on this thread are trying to spend somewhere around 10k, but multiple children and things add up. The thing is this: Weddings are expensive. Just like houses are. Just like tuition. It's all expensive - ten grand is expensive! And they have to happen. Should we just send all these brides and grooms to City Hall instead?
Also, I could school you (pun intended) about spending so much money on college, when you could go to a state school and get financial and merit scholarships instead. So let's not be saddened about all the "waste" when we can point fingers at other waste, too. |
I'm not sure why you say this isn't helpful since the original post was asking how people do it and my response was I had no idea why people would go into debt and/or mortgage their future and their kid's future for a one night event that - at least IMHO - is a low priority expense versus owning a home; having adequate retirement savings; having adequate savings and being able to afford daily living expenses without having to fund on a credit card. And perhaps the best thing was to only have what one could afford because why does anyone want to go into debt to feed people who would really prefer to stay at home and be comfy :-).
I think you missed the part where I stated that my siblings and I were lucky enough to go to quality schools without high tuition - I.e. state schools that rated favorably with most private universities and so the total amount needed was not $50,000 per year. But even tuition and other expenses at a state school add up - between tuition; costs for room and board; books; incidentals since one is not working full time etc. So my parents invested in our future by funding our educations although we also took out relatively small student loans as well as working in the summer. My parents were extremely education minded and they wanted us to be able to devote as much time and energy to school as necessary and also to have some fun during that time so they didn't want us working during the academic sessions.
People seem to have some sort of tunnel vision that marriage requires a large or relatively large expenditure of funds for a party. I would NEVER be insulted if I didn't receive an invitation because the simcha was kept small.
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amother
Papaya
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Thu, Oct 25 2018, 8:45 am
| amother wrote: | I'm not sure why you say this isn't helpful since the original post was asking how people do it and my response was I had no idea why people would go into debt and/or mortgage their future and their kid's future for a one night event that - at least IMHO - is a low priority expense versus owning a home; having adequate retirement savings; having adequate savings and being able to afford daily living expenses without having to fund on a credit card. And perhaps the best thing was to only have what one could afford because why does anyone want to go into debt to feed people who would really prefer to stay at home and be comfy :-).
I think you missed the part where I stated that my siblings and I were lucky enough to go to quality schools without high tuition - I.e. state schools that rated favorably with most private universities and so the total amount needed was not $50,000 per year. But even tuition and other expenses at a state school add up - between tuition; costs for room and board; books; incidentals since one is not working full time etc. So my parents invested in our future by funding our educations although we also took out relatively small student loans as well as working in the summer. My parents were extremely education minded and they wanted us to be able to devote as much time and energy to school as necessary and also to have some fun during that time so they didn't want us working during the academic sessions.
People seem to have some sort of tunnel vision that marriage requires a large or relatively large expenditure of funds for a party. I would NEVER be insulted if I didn't receive an invitation because the simcha was kept small. |
Yes, I'm op and I think ur post was helpful but pls share wat an option is bec going to city hall and having a seuda at a restaurant is another extreme bec its nice to have dancing plus the chupa is required. I'm interested in saving money but having less ppl at the wedding is not saving money as I heard there's a minimum demanded by the caters. So, assuming someone saves money by cutting a lot of the expenses and choosing cheaper menu, I'm wondering where its really possible to do a much smaller wedding with a chupa and dancing space for much cheaper. But, I dont know where and the mechutanim/other side needs to agree.
I also don't think the question is just spend on college or make a wedding for 20k-40k bec a lot of ppl I know went to city colleges or touro on scholarship so they got their education. And, do u mind sharing where/wat kind of wedding u had.
In addition, nobody offered me a choice of exensive wedding or downpayment. I also think my dh would've chosen nice wedding but now yrs later realizes its better to get a downpayment but I would've chosen downpayment (however my inlaws would never have agreed to a cheaper wedding and my parents give in to mechtanim ).
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amother
Papaya
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Thu, Oct 25 2018, 8:49 am
| amother wrote: | This is not helpful. Most of the people on this thread are trying to spend somewhere around 10k, but multiple children and things add up. The thing is this: Weddings are expensive. Just like houses are. Just like tuition. It's all expensive - ten grand is expensive! And they have to happen. Should we just send all these brides and grooms to City Hall instead?
Also, I could school you (pun intended) about spending so much money on college, when you could go to a state school and get financial and merit scholarships instead. So let's not be saddened about all the "waste" when we can point fingers at other waste, too. |
I disagree. I think its good to here a different point of view. I actually agree that its a waste but at the same time, I'm trying to figure out a cheaper way. Unfortunately, a lot of girls are into a gala fancy wedding but yrs later realize they would have rathered used that money for a downpayment. Its all about choices and sometimes ppl are "forced" by mechutanim...but most ppl just do it so I posted this thread. Its good to hear from ppl who do it differently.
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amother
Seashell
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Thu, Oct 25 2018, 9:00 am
| amother wrote: | Yes, I'm op and I think ur post was helpful but pls share wat an option is bec going to city hall and having a seuda at a restaurant is another extreme bec its nice to have dancing plus the chupa is required. I'm interested in saving money but having less ppl at the wedding is not saving money as I heard there's a minimum demanded by the caters. So, assuming someone saves money by cutting a lot of the expenses and choosing cheaper menu, I'm wondering where its really possible to do a much smaller wedding with a chupa and dancing space for much cheaper. But, I dont know where and the mechutanim/other side needs to agree.
I also don't think the question is just spend on college or make a wedding for 20k-40k bec a lot of ppl I know went to city colleges or touro on scholarship so they got their education. And, do u mind sharing where/wat kind of wedding u had.
In addition, nobody offered me a choice of exensive wedding or downpayment. I also think my dh would've chosen nice wedding but now yrs later realizes its better to get a downpayment but I would've chosen downpayment (however my inlaws would never have agreed to a cheaper wedding and my parents give in to mechtanim ). |
The Kallah, The Chassan and the Chuppa are of course required :-)
It really is a question of determining what you can afford and then hosting a wedding within that budget. A simcha is not something I personally would go into debt for nor would I prioritize it over other things that are a higher priority. Unless you elope, any kind of wedding simcha does cost money.
As I recall Greenie had a wedding for her daughter that was outdoors and the food was a mixture of home cooking and some catering. I think some imamothers actually attended but I could be wrong on that. There was a chuppa and dancing - I think they rented the outdoor space so they could have exclusive use. There are people in outside NYC who have backyards that are large enough to host an event graciously.
I never wrote that it was either or necessarily - if you have the funds for everything Mazel. My first post was just commenting on people who were spending money for weddings they really didn't have - and that would be in lieu of other stuff which I personally think are higher priority in the long run like down payments and not being saddled with a lot of student debt.
In the end, it really is a personal decision. It just made me sad that people felt the need to spend money they don't have because of community pressure.
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Amarante
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Thu, Oct 25 2018, 1:51 pm
| watergirl wrote: | | It was 100% kosher. We has some closing costs but no where near typical. We also got a $1,500 grant to be used towards closing costs from the city for buying in the particular area and $1000 grant for closing costs from the bank because we were first time homebuyers. We went through a neighborhood development org that is part of hud with homebuyers workshops and certificates... not for lazy people. The “steak” in the house is also from the time we had to put into the classes and meetings. And of course a lawyer was there at closing. |
This is off topic so I won’t belabor it, but in general you cannot borrow the down payment and down payments exist so that theoretically a buyer has equity in the home from the start and therefore is incentivized to not walk away so easily.
Your loan appears to be part of a special program and therefore might use different criteria for qualifying borrowers.
A seller is really only interested in the net price. They can lower the price or they can cover part of closing costs depending on purchaser’s needs because at the end of escrow, the seller just cares what they walk with
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baltomom
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Sun, Oct 28 2018, 8:39 pm
I know this thread has moved in a different direction, but for those interested in saving money for their kids over time:
I opened custodial funds (UTMA) for each of my kids in the Vanguard and save monthly in Vanguard Target Retirement Funds using the target ("retirement") date around their 20th birthday. These funds are a mix of stocks and bonds, with more risky investments the further away you are from the target retirement date. So the money I put in for my 5 year old is growing much quicker than the money for the 15 year old, but all of it is growing over time.
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amother
Papaya
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Mon, Oct 29 2018, 12:27 pm
| baltomom wrote: | I know this thread has moved in a different direction, but for those interested in saving money for their kids over time:
I opened custodial funds (UTMA) for each of my kids in the Vanguard and save monthly in Vanguard Target Retirement Funds using the target ("retirement") date around their 20th birthday. These funds are a mix of stocks and bonds, with more risky investments the further away you are from the target retirement date. So the money I put in for my 5 year old is growing much quicker than the money for the 15 year old, but all of it is growing over time. |
Thanks so much for sharing.
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amother
Scarlet
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Mon, Oct 29 2018, 2:03 pm
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This thread is giving me major anxiety. We have no savings at all. I have secondary infertility and now I'm thinking maybe it is a bracha in disguise. I can't imagine how we'll ever be able to get out of debt, let alone save. We stopped fertility treatments because of financial problems. I've been told that that's a lack of emmuna and hashkaficaly off. I'm thinking it's hashkaficaly off to bring children into the world that you can't take care of. Thoughts?
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amother
Purple
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Mon, Oct 29 2018, 2:44 pm
| amother wrote: | | This thread is giving me major anxiety. We have no savings at all. I have secondary infertility and now I'm thinking maybe it is a bracha in disguise. I can't imagine how we'll ever be able to get out of debt, let alone save. We stopped fertility treatments because of financial problems. I've been told that that's a lack of emmuna and hashkaficaly off. I'm thinking it's hashkaficaly off to bring children into the world that you can't take care of. Thoughts? |
To comment on this-I just want to say that I hear you. In the same position. Want to restart treatment again, but in so much debt. Frustrating sad situation to be in.
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