The Anti-Vaccination Disgrace By Rabbi Aaron E. Glatt, MD

amother

Ivory

Fri, Oct 26 2018, 8:26 am

If you believe these Rabbanim are learned , intelligent , and valid respectable rabbis in other areas of life and Torah Study, It’s obviously disrespectful and demeaning to say they are stupid enough to be “brainwashed” just like that. Many people disagree with their wives in certain matters and I believe a strong Rabbi would be able to hold his own ground.

amother

Cyan

Fri, Oct 26 2018, 8:36 am

I don't have patience to get into this argument again, but I just had this brilliant idea. There should be a school just for unvaccinated kids. In the big communities with so many anti vaxxers they will definarely fill up an entire school (Monsey, Williamsburg lakewood....)
At least in a big school like viznitz they can make an unvaccinated class. (I pity their pregnant teacher though).

amother

Ivory

Fri, Oct 26 2018, 8:40 am

watergirl wrote:

The law of the land is also a halacha. And in some communities, its far more than one or two unvaxxed kids.

I’m not so sure. In instances where bris was forbidden in the land or Torah Learning was forbidden in the land, taking off on shabbos was forbidden in the land, the Jews always snuck around and did it or found a loophole.
In any event, the law in every state recognizes one or more vaccine exemptions. There will always be some people walking around who are not immune due to medical, philosophical, or religious exemptions. There are also a percentage of people who for whatever reason aren’t immune even after being vaccinated and whose immunity wore off because boosters aren’t enforced for adults. That’s reality. There will always be some people who aren’t immune at any given time and you can find them in every state and in every religion or sect.

iyar

Fri, Oct 26 2018, 8:40 am

amother wrote:

There was a shiur I listened from a prominent Rabbi who also deals with medical ethics. He makes it pretty clear that he is a pro vaccine rabbi and that he recommends people get the shots. However, he does state that when it comes to schools, they are halachically obligated to take an unvaccinated child. He goes into the Halacha in depth, but the bottom line was that halachically, one cannot force a parent to do something that they believe is dangerous to their child and may not deny an education for that. The risk of having one or two unvaccinated children in a school is too small and insignificant to justify it. While I myself vaccinate and see the validity in it, I think this article is one sided and basic and leaves out a lot of information both for and against without bringing enough sources.

There is such a thing as a metzius (-current reality, -what exists right now; poor translation) changing. I wonder what the Rav you quoted (without telling us his name) would say after recent and current outbreaks.

What’s significant about the article shabbatiscoming posted is that it was written in the present situation, by a person with knowledge of both Halacha and medical facts.

By the way, I’m the one who reported t the post above.
I was disgusted to see Rabbi in quotation marks. I’m used to seeing all kinds of comments here that don’t follow my way of thinking. I’m sure my comments sometimes look completely wrong to some of you. But this disrespect really upset me.

Chayalle

Fri, Oct 26 2018, 8:47 am

amother wrote:

No I don't think he learned. I think he learned wtvr gar age the vaccine companies teach not anything else. My cousin almost died from getting that shot. She was in the ICU for a month straight from the doctors office and not has a very compromised immune system from that "harmless" shot we just throw into the bodies of out young children and now babies.

And my cousin almost died from peanut butter. And there are still mothers feeding their young children peanut butter sandwiches.

oneofakind

Fri, Oct 26 2018, 8:52 am

My nephew got the measles from the MMR. 10 days after the shot, when reactions come out, he got a very high fever, rash all over his body, went to the doctor twice that week. Doctor called it "a virus". Gee whiz. Measles is a virus and that's what it looks like. Everybody should do what they need to do to keep themselves and their children safe, take vaccines or don't take vaccines (I wouldn't want to take achrayus if somebody has a bad reaction, why would you?) and take chill pill.

OBnursemom

Fri, Oct 26 2018, 9:00 am

amother wrote:

No! The children and grandchildren of immunocompromised people should not be exposed at school! Children are real carriers, and they bring ‘presents’ home to their families. Pertussis and measles in infants can be deadly. The same for people on chemo or people who have other reasons not to have an intact immune system. You are literally being complacent and saying you and yours are more important than them. Just admit you don’t care. Kol hakavod to the schools that ban your children who are menaces to the health of society because of YOU. I will continue to send my children to such schools. To protect them from you. Because my baby and my elderly parents are not as important to you as your own made up medical ideas.

amother

Plum

Fri, Oct 26 2018, 9:12 am

amother wrote:

There is a prominent Rabbi for this, There is a prominent doctor for that, There is a prominent lecture here, a prominent shiur there,.... With the internet in today's age, anyone can weave together a theory by picking and choosing info they like. Claims like this are worthless.

To have valid claims to anything, you need to evaluate all sides of the coin and counter the opposition with evidence and facts to support your claims. In this situation we have the following:

On one side we have almost the complete majority of the medical world, scientific information to prove the vaccination concept, and the astounding evidence of its success.

On the other side, we have some isolated doctors, (and Rabbis) here and there, no scientific info to prove their point, zero evidence to back up their claims, and mostly 'self-educated' followers.

How is it still a question?????

(disclaimer - not talking about those who are immunocompromised or allergic.)

Chayalle

Fri, Oct 26 2018, 9:13 am

oneofakind wrote:

Actually, reaction to the MMR is usually pretty immediate. I remember when my oldest DD (she's 20 B"AH) had the shot she had a fever for a day or so. Nothing serious, and tylenol helped. I don't remember my other daughters having a reaction at all.

Unless your nephew had a confirmed case of the measles, please don't call a fever with a rash the measles. This is just the type of ignorance that anti-vaxers spread with no basis at all.

amother

Ivory

Fri, Oct 26 2018, 9:20 am

OBnursemom wrote:

I vaccinate my children.
The immunocompromised children that are not vaccinated are allowed in and are posing the same exact risk to each other. Think about it logically. If you’re worried from a safety perspective, what’s the difference?

amother

Plum

Fri, Oct 26 2018, 9:20 am

Chayalle wrote:

The side effects of the MMR do appear 10 days later, its with the other shots that you have immediate side effects.

Regardless, I still agree with your second paragraph.

Chayalle

Fri, Oct 26 2018, 9:26 am

amother wrote:

To some degree, the immuncompromised children may be hanging around vaccinated parents, siblings, etc...and pose less of a risk than those who are not vaxed, and keeping company with same.

amother

Rose

Fri, Oct 26 2018, 10:28 am

I have 2 children that were severely allergic to eggs. They were never prescribed an epi pen. However, within hours of eating anything even with traces of eggs they got a cold. Within a few hours later they had difficulty breathing and needed a nebulizer and steroids for at least 3-5 days. Many shots used to have eggs as one of the ingredients (some still do). After getting a reaction to a shot we stopped giving these 2 children shots. When they outgrew the egg allergy a few years later, we gave them the shots. The school at the time (during the years they were allergic) wanted to kick out my boys even though they had a letter from the doctor. Because they weren’t prescribed an epi pen and BH wouldn’t stop breathing right after the shot, it’s not considered a reaction! My doctor tried calling and they didn’t care. I sent my kids to school and said if CH”V there’s an outbreak I would obviously keep them home but these 2 kids are highly allergic. Whether the reaction is instant or within 24 hours should not make a difference. All my other kids have / are being vaccinated. A medical exemption should not be only for those who go into anaphylactic shock. A reaction can sometimes come out 24 hours later.

Chayalle

Fri, Oct 26 2018, 10:57 am

amother wrote:

I hear you on this one. My DD is allergic to penicillin. It's not an immediate reaction, but with a day or so, she will break out in horrible, painful hives. That might not be life threatening (we actually don't know and don't want to find out - secondary reactions could be worse than the first), but the doctor agrees with me and does not prescribe penicillin when she needs antibiotics.

One of my kids is allergic to Brocolli. She gets hives, which are not life-threatening. We don't serve brocolli in my house.

But it would be ludicrous to decry anyone who does give their kids shots, or penicillin, or broccolli, because of the few who are allergic.

OBnursemom

Fri, Oct 26 2018, 11:45 am

amother wrote:

Immunocompromised children are likely not at school. If they are, it’s probably with a mask. Children who are allergic or who have health conditions that preclude getting vaccinated are unlucky enough to depend on us for herd immunity. These days, I might homeschool a child who fits that description. The immunocompromised people who stay home are still in danger because of unvaccinated children at school. Children bring diseases home. They can be carriers for illnesses even if they don’t get sick. It is a scary season just having to deal with colds and URIs without having to also worry about measles.

amother

Lilac

Fri, Oct 26 2018, 12:05 pm

With all due respect to Dr Glatt, as qualified as he is there are just as qualified people on the vaccine risk side. There needs to be dialogue. Shouting insults and pretending the other side isn't legit is just not going to work anymore. Recently there was an attempt to have an open debate, it was called One Conversation. You can look it up. Many experts came for the vaccine choice side and spoke for hours about the issues and concerns. The problem is that no one from the pro-vaccine side showed up. This has to change. To those who say did you go to medical school? Nowadays it is possible to find out what is taught in medical school and no vaccines are not taught in-depth -only the schedule is.

watergirl

Fri, Oct 26 2018, 12:15 pm

amother wrote:

And yet interestingly, both Rabbi Dr. Glatt was able to list BY NAME the various experts both in medicine and in the Rabbinate and rabbinical medical ethics world who are qualified to make statements. I have yet to see anyone name what you call "just as qualified people" who can make statements for their side of the debate other than Rabbi Kamenetsky. We hear about "research" and "experts" but no names.

And I will trust any Doctor, especially one as educated and qualified in infectious diseases, WAY BEFORE trusting any Googlemeister.

watergirl

Fri, Oct 26 2018, 1:09 pm

amother wrote:

U can look up Dr Yehuda shoenfeld, Dr Zach Bush, Dr Russell blaylock
But the point is not to trust but to evaluate the information
And Google is a search engine available and utilized by all your favorite experts

Ok, I looked them all up (I am also a Googlemeister). Interestingly, the first hit for Dr. Blaylock calls him "the quack behind the MSG Scare" - he is a former neurosurgeon. The other two dr's google searches also gave me negative websites in the top 3 sites listed. And none of them are specialists in infections diseases. I would not call them experts.

What Rabbinical authority can you name, other than Rabbi Kamenetsky? Can you list the mainstream gedolei hador that Rabbi Dr. Glatt listed? Those who are so well known that it doesnt require a google search to know about?