T or F: 2 f/t incomes frum USA, no one is starving for food

ectomorph

Sun, Oct 28 2018, 7:48 pm

amother wrote:

Yes the tuition board doesn't care if u go hungry.. I'm not sure how involved you are in these situations but I am involved, they do not care at all unfortunately

really? Every tuition board I know of (3-4) recognizes that if you earn 60k a year and have10 kids your going to need money to live on.

I'm oot though. But we don't have tomchei shabbos etc where I live or community programs so maybe they assume in town that you can get food from chesed.

amother

Navy

Sun, Oct 28 2018, 7:49 pm

ectomorph wrote:

If you earn 60k and have 3 kids... That's still no where near enough especially in NY where you can be paying over 25k for rent

amother

Brown

Sun, Oct 28 2018, 7:54 pm

Squishy wrote:

Many stores will give away their unsold food eruv shabbos. They give it to shuls and poor people.

I know a family that gets unsold pizza motzi shabbos every single week.

Chicken from Kapparos is given to the poor.

Tomche Shabbos seems to provide enough to get through Shabbos and yom tovim. It is problematic if you prefer schnitzel and are given chicken bottoms, but you won't starve.

I know one family that is too embarrassed to go on Tomche Shabbos, and the Rabbi sends them cases of chicken, frozen salmon, gifeltte fish, meat, eggs, and produce. It is an abundance of those items.

I wish I would be able to get from my neighborhood but I dont know any stores doing it. And, if they give it to shuls, then u have to be considered very "poor" to get or have connections.

amother

Brown

Sun, Oct 28 2018, 7:57 pm

ectomorph wrote:

The tuition boards from my schools dont care about much except getting their money. I would love to know how lower paying couples pay but I also think schools generally give more tuition deductions to kollel or chinuch families such that working families pay the rest. 2 full time incomes is different for every family depending on what they work as.

ectomorph

Sun, Oct 28 2018, 8:11 pm

amother wrote:

I wish I would be able to get from my neighborhood but I dont know any stores doing it. And, if they give it to shuls, then u have to be considered very "poor" to get or have connections.

you must tell people you need it. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

A family in my community wss very upset ppl didn't help them but we were their friends and they never told us they were in the hospital for 3 months!! We would have loved to help! It didn't even occur to us to ask if they were in the hospital because they never told us they were pregnant !

33055

Sun, Oct 28 2018, 8:31 pm

ectomorph wrote:

ITA

You need to speak up and ask. Some stores have a policy and some take pity.

southernbubby

Mon, Oct 29 2018, 9:50 am

The question always asked is why there is so much obesity among the poor. The answer is that many don't have access to supermarkets and end up eating cheap processed food.

If people have a way to get to a supermarket, a person can follow the USDA thrifty food plan.

https://www.cnpp.usda.gov/site.....8.pdf

https://choosemyplate-prod.azu.....s.pdf

Of course much of that depends on the price of non-kosher meat and Jews have to compensate by eating less of the meat.

Back in the day, my great grandparents, who lived in Grudno, on the Russian Polish border, probably spent winters eating whatever would be available off season and whatever could be stored through the winter so they survived without frequent trips to the supermarket.

There is a good youtube blog to listen to while you do other things and it is called Living on a Dime. These people had to ration their food while they had no money and believed that if there is enough daily Vitamin C in one orange to get through a day, then each family member was allotted one orange a day. They didn't starve but much of their food was the cheapest stuff available.

I would say that if a child had to choose between eating enough for his or her growing body or going to a yeshiva, many would choose not to go hungry and forego the yeshiva. Some children, however, would choose the yeshiva and accept the hunger. Maybe some families have to let their children make that choice.

Here in Detroit (I am packing but didn't move yet), there is Yad Ezra food bank and Mrs. Shwartz who gets Second Harvest (or Forgotten Harvest) in her garage and it is available Wednesday through Friday. This doesn't solve all food needs or problems but it may be the difference between going to bed hungry or at least having something.

Amarante

Mon, Oct 29 2018, 10:21 am

There is no doubt that it takes a lot of energy to feed a family healthily with limited financial resources. As southernbubby points out, there are factors such as access to supermarkets with healthier food choices and cheaper prices as well as access to transportation in order to bring home bulk items or shop at less expensive stores.

And often people with limited means are working very hard so coming home and cooking a meal - planning ahead so there are whole grain foods available is difficult. There have been people who attempted to feed their families on government programs - it's doable but leads almost no room for any kind of mistake.

amother

Bronze

Mon, Oct 29 2018, 10:14 pm

I used to volunteer for 4 different Jewish food banks, doing deliveries (I drove a truck) a total of around 20 hours a week.
1) You would be shocked how many 2 income families didn't have enough for food
2) You would be shocked how little food Tomchei Shabbos can give in some weeks
3) You would be shocked at the people who appear to be fine whose kids go to bed hungry
4) That doesn't count kids who are just eating very unhealthy for lack of money or not eating quite enough
5) Single mothers are the worst off. A huge number of children of single mothers are regularly hungry. We have a lot of single mothers in our community.

If you want to actually learn about this, every community (hopefully) has a Tomchei Shabbos and you can start making deliveries. I had people on my route whose siblings had no idea.

I had one woman on my route who had 6 kids, 4 in Yeshiva and her husband left her for his secretary he got pregnant and paid a Rabbi to convert before the baby was born. And he wouldn't give a gett. And the Rabbis did nothing about that AND married him to his newly converted wife without a heter meah rabbonim. He of course paid no child support. And of course if his wife wanted to put her 2 younger kids in daycare full time that would eat more than a full time salary so she did just odd jobs and the kids were hungry often. And I brought her $15/week worth of food from Tomchei Shabbos, because people donate for kollels and for shuls and for sifrei Torah but not so much for Tomchei, plus whatever I could buy her.

This is a HUGE problem in our community, that many people don't know about, either willfully or unintentionally.

naturalmom5

Mon, Oct 29 2018, 10:55 pm

amother wrote:

Interesting question. I wonder why u ask this. I think its possible bec both jobs may be low paying. But at the same time, unhealthy food like pasta u can buy for 1 dollar at dollar tree. And rice is unhealthy but cheap.

But at the same time, kosher food is very expensive and cholov yisroel more expensive.

I know the amount of $ to get food stamps is very low. I dont understand how one can pay other expenses with such low income for 2 ppl. Meanwhile, bec one can buy rice for so cheap then I cant imagine ppl starving. But there are a lot of factors and I always see everyone buying tons and tons of food in the jewish store wether erev yomtov/shabbos or a regular weekday. I eat simply and save a lot on food but its hard eating healthy on a budget even just buying lentils and beans which I got ideas here for. There are places that give food for free for families but they are mostly expired or things that are not enough for a family for a week. And, there is masbia a free "restaurant" for the poor to get meals which is embarressing just like going to get free food.

I wonder what restaurants/pizza stores/ bakeries do with all their old"" food. I do know someone who collects from one stores leftovers for tomchei shabbos but even tomchei shabbos is not enough for a large family. There are ppl who have connections who get "" leftovers from stores but stores throw out a lot at night/before shabbos so too after weddings or events. I remember one sponsored event I wanted to take leftovers but the rich lady (who cant understand ppl who dont have) embarressed those taking and yelled. And, the rich lady let them throw all the healthy food in the garbage instead of letting ppl take home leftovers that we and others all paid for with tzedaka money!!

There are some organizations who say that families are starving. Well, maybe those ppl will refuse to eat rice or pasta and want only certain foods to be given to them. Yes, everyone gets to eat properly but if u are really starving, buy a big bag of rice....

This reminds me of something I once read in the CIS biography of the the Nodah b Yehuda. During the 30 years war in Prague, there were very lavish simchas. The workers would throw salmon and chicken and other lavish things in the garbage. Then there were guards hired to chase the starving Jewish and N-jewish beggars away from the garbage, until the Rabbonim put an end to this.

amother

Powderblue

Tue, Oct 30 2018, 3:46 am

amother wrote:

This is so sad to hear. They don't even have bread or potatoes to give their children? Tuition should be paid after their kids have food to eat.

I think so too. Thing is, the schools administration don't think so. At all. They have made the girls go home from school because tuituin was paid and they didnt have admission cards.
I do understand the school's as well. Their father is a melamed. He needs his students to pay tuition so he can get his paycheck. (Albeit a small one- that's a different discussion)

These are relatives of mine. Ppl wouldn't dream that this is their situation. There's also the thing with shame.... kids in shidduchim. They don't want tomche shabbos at the door... has to be done In a smart way. It really does get complicated and sad.
Often daddy brings home leftovers from his school's lunch. So the kids can eat blintzes and rewarmed pizza bagels. Not starving. But hungry.

Rent is exhorbitant.
Tuition is also.
Insurance costs $$$
Bills.
Credit card bills.
Tutoring
Clothing and shoes. (They do shop at second hand places.) Doesn't always work tho...
Etc. Etc. Bunch of kids keh. And then weddings. And simchas. Even if done simply.

FranticFrummie

Tue, Oct 30 2018, 5:39 am

I don't know how you can make this calculation, and not take in factors like income and other expenses. Low income and high expenses, means that you have to choose what will go unpaid each month. Electricity, or food? Medicine, or food? Phone, or food? Those are real life decisions that can have devastating impact if you guess wrong.

What is the point of having a meal, if your water is shut off and you don't get paid for another week? You should never know such struggles.

amother

Brown

Tue, Oct 30 2018, 6:51 am

amother wrote:

IN NY if both parents work, u can get vouchers from city to pay for tuition & after school program where they give supper. Many schools, cheder & yeshivas where I live give breakfast lunch & snack for the kids. They get funded with food programs from the govt.

What?? I heard of this for low income working parents and only tuition for younger kids. Is this wat u are referring to? The income to be eligible is so low that I dont know how ppl manage on that income.

But regarding food, the lunch in all the schools by me cost an extra 1200 per yr. Only the very young kids get school lunch free and the school lunch for the rest of the kids is free only if income is very low.

amother

Seashell

Tue, Oct 30 2018, 8:41 pm

amother wrote:

That's really sad story about the single mom with 6 kids, but I wasn't referring to single parents, was referring specifically to 2 parent full time incomes for basic foods, after receiving food stamps or tomchei shabbos if they do. Are you saying you know families where both parents work full time, that go to bed hungry, even though they get food. Which city is this in? Can tomchei shabbos send them more food? Is there any additional community help available for them?

amother

Bronze

Tue, Oct 30 2018, 11:51 pm

amother wrote:

See number 1. Yes. I know 2 income families without enough food.