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-> Interesting Discussions
Mommyg8
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 Tue, Oct 30 2018, 4:10 pm
| Maya wrote: | Certainly not less than others.
And yeah, talk about being brainwashed. So sad. |
How many white conservatives have you met? I've met lots, and they've all been extremely nice to me. What's been your experience?
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Maya
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Tue, Oct 30 2018, 4:10 pm
| Fox wrote: | Ah, those would be the "toothless trailer trash" as one journalist described them.
Because we all know (wink, wink, nudge, nudge) that "American white conservative uneducated men" are racist, white supremacist, anti-Semitic, and stupid.
You may not "get" people who don't share the same background and experiences as you, but they (and I) sure as heck "get" your hateful bigotry. |
Actually no. I wasn’t referring to middle Americans. There are enough such people here in middle class suburbia to help me understand how Trump got elected.
Last edited by Maya on Tue, Oct 30 2018, 4:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mommyg8
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Tue, Oct 30 2018, 4:10 pm
| Fox wrote: | Ah, those would be the "toothless trailer trash" as one journalist described them.
Because we all know (wink, wink, nudge, nudge) that "American white conservative uneducated men" are racist, white supremacist, anti-Semitic, and stupid.
You may not "get" people who don't share the same background and experiences as you, but they (and I) sure as heck "get" your hateful bigotry. |
Thank you, Fox.
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Maya
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Tue, Oct 30 2018, 4:11 pm
| Mommyg8 wrote: | | How many white conservatives have you met? I've met lots, and they've all been extremely nice to me. What's been your experience? |
My experience? Nice to me because I don’t announce my political views, but otherwise hateful and ignorant bigots.
ETA: not every single one, but enough for me to understand the phenomenon.
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Fox
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Tue, Oct 30 2018, 4:18 pm
| Maya wrote: | | Actually no. I wasn’t referring to middle Americans. There are enough such people here in middle class suburbia to help me understand how Trump got elected. |
What is a "middle American"? And how is it different from people in "middle class suburbia"?
And how does that justify your hatred toward people based on their gender, race, or political affiliation?
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Maya
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Tue, Oct 30 2018, 4:20 pm
| Fox wrote: | What is a "middle American"? And how is it different from people in "middle class suburbia"?
And how does that justify your hatred toward people based on their gender, race, or political affiliation? |
With all the college level essays you write on this site, one would think you’d know the difference between middle America and New York suburbia. Maybe google it.
I don’t remember saying I hate those people. I did say I don’t “get” those people and their attitudes. Please don’t put words in my mouth to suit your agenda.
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simcha2
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Tue, Oct 30 2018, 4:20 pm
| Mommyg8 wrote: | Can I quote you on that  ?
Yes, I thought Trump way more competent. Strangely, I haven't heard one criticism about his competence, though. |
All my criticisms are about his competence.
When he comes out of a meeting with the Canadian prime minister admitting he made up numbers, that is about his incompetence.
When he makes false claims about immigrants that is about his incompetence.
When he denigrates anyone who criticizes him that is about his incompetence.
When he accepts money from Saudi Arabia and then refuses to enact sanctions that is about his incompetence.
When the debt deficit is the highest its ever been (then the republicans shut down the government under Obama because of their upset at the debt) that is his incompetence.
When after the Las Vegas shooting he said he was for gun control and then met with the nra and decided he wasn't, that is his incompetence.
When he failed to strongly denounce white supremacists, that is his incompetence
When he had still not released his tax returns (seriously why aren't republicans up in arms over this??) Etc. Etc.
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Fox
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Tue, Oct 30 2018, 4:29 pm
| Maya wrote: | With all the college level essays you write on this site, one would think you’d know the difference between middle America and New York suburbia. Maybe google it.
I don’t remember saying I hate those people. I did say I don’t “get” those people and their attitudes. Please don’t put words in my mouth to suit your agenda. |
No, you said that "American white conservative uneducated men" are racist, white supremacist, anti-Semitic, and stupid. Then you doubled down repeatedly, using your experience as proof, first claiming that members of this group are only nice to you when they don't know your political views, and then claiming, essentially, that you "know the type."
That is hateful bigotry that would (and should!) be called out immediately if it were directed at any other group. Why would you think it's acceptable to say those things about any group?!
Please spare us any future moralizing about alleged racism, etc., on the part of Imamothers. You've adequately made the point that racism, etc., are perfectly fine as long as they're directed at people against whom you happen to be prejudiced.
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Mommyg8
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Tue, Oct 30 2018, 4:31 pm
| simcha2 wrote: | All my criticisms are about his competence.
When he comes out of a meeting with the Canadian prime minister admitting he made up numbers, that is about his incompetence.
When he makes false claims about immigrants that is about his incompetence.
When he denigrates anyone who criticizes him that is about his incompetence.
When he accepts money from Saudi Arabia and then refuses to enact sanctions that is about his incompetence.
When the debt deficit is the highest its ever been (then the republicans shut down the government under Obama because of their upset at the debt) that is his incompetence.
When after the Las Vegas shooting he said he was for gun control and then met with the nra and decided he wasn't, that is his incompetence.
When he failed to strongly denounce white supremacists, that is his incompetence
When he had still not released his tax returns (seriously why aren't republicans up in arms over this??) Etc. Etc. |
I don't agree with a single statement. Not one of these statements have illustrated his incompetence - not one.
Incompetence does not mean that he has verbal diarrhea - that is a character flaw (and for some, as I mentioned earlier, a positive).
In order to convince me that he is incompetent, I need to see consequences of his actions. Debt deficit being higher than last year is pretty much standard operating procedure in Washinton, and anybody who pretends that they know what the numbers will be for 2018 is lying anyway.
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Mevater
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Tue, Oct 30 2018, 4:32 pm
| Fox wrote: | Because we all know (wink, wink, nudge, nudge) that "American white conservative uneducated men" are racist, white supremacist, anti-Semitic, and stupid.
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Unfortunately, not all but many are racist, white supremacist, etc. The only way they can ever hope to achieve anything in this world is taking over the country. Trump got all their votes, but imho Trump has totally different goals and dreams. Trump, already has everything a man can want, and wants to go down in history as a President who accomplished much.
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Maya
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Tue, Oct 30 2018, 4:34 pm
| Fox wrote: | No, you said that "American white conservative uneducated men" are racist, white supremacist, anti-Semitic, and stupid. Then you doubled down repeatedly, using your experience as proof, first claiming that members of this group are only nice to you when they don't know your political views, and then claiming, essentially, that you "know the type."
That is hateful bigotry that would (and should!) be called out immediately if it were directed at any other group. Why would you think it's acceptable to say those things about any group?!
Please spare us any future moralizing about alleged racism, etc., on the part of Imamothers. You've adequately made the point that racism, etc., are perfectly fine as long as they're directed at people against whom you happen to be prejudiced. |
The lack of self awareness from people who spend hours a day saying hateful things about liberals but then turn around and admonish the liberals for doing the exact same thing would be funny if it wasn’t so sad.
I’ll spare you the rest of what I have to say. Perhaps refrain from engaging with me in the future if you can’t handle what I have to say.
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amother
Blush
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Tue, Oct 30 2018, 4:39 pm
| simcha2 wrote: | All my criticisms are about his competence.
When he comes out of a meeting with the Canadian prime minister admitting he made up numbers, that is about his incompetence.
When he makes false claims about immigrants that is about his incompetence.
When he denigrates anyone who criticizes him that is about his incompetence.
When he accepts money from Saudi Arabia and then refuses to enact sanctions that is about his incompetence.
When the debt deficit is the highest its ever been (then the republicans shut down the government under Obama because of their upset at the debt) that is his incompetence.
When after the Las Vegas shooting he said he was for gun control and then met with the nra and decided he wasn't, that is his incompetence.
When he failed to strongly denounce white supremacists, that is his incompetence
When he had still not released his tax returns (seriously why aren't republicans up in arms over this??) Etc. Etc. |
When he is caught in lie after lie after lie, that is about his competence.
When he makes absurdist claims about making tax cuts during a Congressional recess, or about issuing a presidential proclamation about the citizenship of children born in the US, that is about his competence.
When he refuses to recognize global warming, that is about his competence.
When he deregulates and deregulates and deregulates, which will harm our environment and, eventually, our economy, that is about his competence.
When he repealed the Fair Pay and Safe Workplaces executive order, that is about his competence.
When Trump attacks the free press and suggests that First Amendment protections of media (defamation law) be changed, that is about his competence.
When he and his party talk about reducing the deficit (that increased due to his tax cuts) by cutting programs for the poor and elderly, when he talks about deep cuts to food stamps, that is about his competence
When he race-baits about an "invasion," its about his competence
When instead of acting on behalf of all of his constituents, he attacks those with whom he disagrees as an "angry mob," and lies about their positions (eg "open borders") its about his competence
When he does everything in his power to undermine the ACA after he was unable to repeal it, and when he proposes a new plan that would not cover pre-existing conditions (while falsely claiming it will), its about his competence.
And so much more.
Its all about his competence. You just don't want to see it.
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sequoia
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Tue, Oct 30 2018, 4:40 pm
Sidenote: disliking someone for their political views may (often) be unwarranted, but it is nonetheless different than disliking someone based on immutable characteristics.
Carry on.
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sushilover
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Tue, Oct 30 2018, 4:41 pm
| amother wrote: | Trump is supposed to be the president of the United States.
Fox is supposed to be a news network.
Colbert is supposed to be a comedian.
Do you really not differentiate among them?
Trump's lies have the imprimatur of the government. When he lies -- and he unquestionably does so habitually -- it is the government lying.
Fox is a news network. Its peddling fake information -- which is sadly mimicked by people like the Pittsburgh mass murderer -- violates our trust in the media.
Colbert is a comedian with a late night talk show. At best he's editorial, not news. You might as well attack Weekend Update for providing fake news. |
Yes, the media lying is bad. Glad we agree.
The media is the fourth estate- our country depends on it to be honest and unbiased, or at least open about its biases.
If you condemn Fox News for peddling false information (I'd like to know specifically what you are referring to), you must also condemn left leaning sites when they spread misinformation and/or fear mongering.
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sushilover
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Tue, Oct 30 2018, 4:45 pm
| Maya wrote: | Yes. There definitely is something about those American white conservative uneducated men that I don’t get. And that is their racism, their white supremacy, their anti Semitism, their stupidity in believing all the fear mongering that the president is an expert in doing, their blind belief in fake news and extreme right talking points, and their worship of money and the world that Trump comes from.
But apparently he got it. |
Got it.
Trump voters are dumb racists. And we are all white men. 
I better let my family know.
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amother
Blush
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Tue, Oct 30 2018, 4:45 pm
| sushilover wrote: | Yes, the media lying is bad. Glad we agree.
The media is the fourth estate- our country depends on it to be honest and unbiased, or at least open about its biases.
If you condemn Fox News for peddling false information (I'd like to know specifically what you are referring to), you must also condemn left leaning sites when they spread misinformation and/or fear mongering. |
Of course.
Its just that most of the things that the right calls "misinformation" simply isn't.
Eg, attacks on the NY Times as "fake news." Its not.
By the way, I'm waiting to see the conservatives here attack Trump's lies. How about it. Is it bad when Trump lies?
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Fox
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Tue, Oct 30 2018, 4:45 pm
| Maya wrote: | The lack of self awareness from people who spend hours a day saying hateful things about liberals but then turn around and admonish the liberals for doing the exact same thing would be funny if it wasn’t so sad.
I’ll spare you the rest of what I have to say. Perhaps refrain from engaging with me in the future if you can’t handle what I have to say. |
Annnd . . . we pivot to the personal attack!
You are 100 percent correct. I cannot handle the kind of bigotry you defend, and I'm very proud of that.
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amother
Blush
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Tue, Oct 30 2018, 4:48 pm
| Fox wrote: | Annnd . . . we pivot to the personal attack!
You are 100 percent correct. I cannot handle the kind of bigotry you defend, and I'm very proud of that. |
Well, she only referred to people who "spend hours a day saying hateful things about liberals ..." If you think that you do that, then yes, she did attack you.
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Fox
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Tue, Oct 30 2018, 4:52 pm
| amother wrote: | | Well, she only referred to people who "spend hours a day saying hateful things about liberals ..." If you think that you do that, then yes, she did attack you. |
Sorry, no plausible deniability. Please don't tap-dance around bigotry.
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Mommyg8
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Tue, Oct 30 2018, 4:54 pm
| amother wrote: | When he is caught in lie after lie after lie, that is about his competence.
When he makes absurdist claims about making tax cuts during a Congressional recess, or about issuing a presidential proclamation about the citizenship of children born in the US, that is about his competence.
When he refuses to recognize global warming, that is about his competence.
When he deregulates and deregulates and deregulates, which will harm our environment and, eventually, our economy, that is about his competence.
When he repealed the Fair Pay and Safe Workplaces executive order, that is about his competence.
When Trump attacks the free press and suggests that First Amendment protections of media (defamation law) be changed, that is about his competence.
When he and his party talk about reducing the deficit (that increased due to his tax cuts) by cutting programs for the poor and elderly, when he talks about deep cuts to food stamps, that is about his competence
When he race-baits about an "invasion," its about his competence
When instead of acting on behalf of all of his constituents, he attacks those with whom he disagrees as an "angry mob," and lies about their positions (eg "open borders") its about his competence
When he does everything in his power to undermine the ACA after he was unable to repeal it, and when he proposes a new plan that would not cover pre-existing conditions (while falsely claiming it will), its about his competence.
And so much more.
Its all about his competence. You just don't want to see it. |
Ok, so I'll respond line by line.
1. Making absurd claims is verbal diarhea, not incompetence.
2. I don't either recognize global warming  .
3. This country is way to regulated. Taking away some regulation would actually be a good thing, if you have some evidence that he's actually doing it. And like I said, I'm not particularly worried about the environment, or should I rephrase that, I don't understand how America can say they are worried about the environment when they keep buying goods from China that is turning some Chinese towns into black smokestacks (oh, as long as it is not in my back yard).
4. I don't know much about this, gotta research.
5. Well the free press attacked him first, didn't they? My favorite line - it all started when he hit me back.
6. The deficit increased due to his tax cuts? I addressed that before. The deficit has pretty much been increasing exponentially for the past I don't know how many years. Did you just notice? And you will have no idea as to the impact of the tax cuts until at least a year and a half from now.
7. When he talks about "invasion" he is pandering to his voters. Maybe not very nice, but it's not incompetence.
I'm tired of writing. Is this enough?
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