Is anyone really coping?

amother

Violet

Tue, Oct 30 2018, 3:18 pm

zaq wrote:

Why do you think it’s only a Jewish thing? Read any secular women’s mag and you’ll see that virtually all women with young children feel as if they’re drowning, whether or.not they work outside the home but more so if they do.

Many of us create our own pressures by trying to be all things to all people at the same time. IMHO elaborate Shabbos meals with three kugels and four desserts are the territory of childless couples and empty nesters who actually enjoy that kind of patchkerei, not moms of young children and not women who don’t enjoy patchkerei. Ditto the fancy mishloach manot, themed bday parties, labor-intensive hairdos for little girls, and all the other unnecessary “enhancements” we get involved with.

Running a household and keeping one’s family safe, decently clothed, nutritiously fed, and up-to-date at the dentist is hard enough without making things more complicated than they need to be.

I think it is particularly hard for Jewish women. We often get married young with little/no savings. Our husbands often start out learning and/or have school to finish. We have big families. We make shabbos every week. There is always yontif coming up. We pay tuition. We have to make sure our kids are coping with duel curriculums. We make time to daven. We cook for people in the community. We make kiddushes and brises and bar/bas Mitzvahs and give our boys barmitzvah lessons. We go to the mikvah every month with everything that entails. We have to somehow manage to be both pretty and tzanuah. It's just A LOT.

But I do think your last sentiment really nails it. It's about making the main thing the main thing!!

amother

Violet

Tue, Oct 30 2018, 3:34 pm

amother wrote:

I think that people who tell themselves that no one is managing, or no one is really happy, or everyone has huge problems we don’t know about are using it as a coping mechanism. One of my aunts blurted out a while back “is there anyone who doesn’t wake up every morning with a pit in her stomach?” I bit my lips. She probably has anxiety.
Yes I cope. Not always. There are days and months that I’m in survival mode, like when I’m in late pregnancy or traveling or after a loss. But in general I do.

I fear that you are right! I like to believe that everyone feels like they are drowning because it makes me feel so much less alone and inadequate. But the truth is some women (you included) are managing just fine. I suspect that this is becoming more prevalent though as pressures mount in our society. II don't know how to do a poll - but I'd love to see the breakdown of us imamothers and simply ask- Are you coping? yes/no

thunderstorm

Tue, Oct 30 2018, 3:36 pm

I manage and cope for the most part BUT, I don't set high standards for myself. I don't expect to have sparkling floors, and an empty sink every night. I don't expect to have a spotless house or have all my laundry done. I take it as it comes and try to tackle what I can. My priorities are not the same as another woman's priorities. But for me, myself, I feel like I'm coping and managing.
There's always room for me to grow and achieve more so the work is never complete. I feel ok with what I've got. Some days are more stressful than others, but that is normal and ok. No need to knock yourself down and tell yourself that you are not managing. I think if we don't have such high expectations of ourselves we learn to let go drop by drop and realize it's ok.

amother

Slateblue

Tue, Oct 30 2018, 3:44 pm

I manage, mostly, with things that are important. I manage, sometimes, with things that are less important. We all get dressed, get to school, get cuddles, get bathed, go to the doctors/dentist, have food in the house, have meals etc. Money is not a stress and I do have cleaning help twice a week. I have three kids. But I work VERY VERY hard to maintain my mental health. If not for that, I would be a mess.
I think that the demands of a jewish mother are so vast. Everyone has a different make up/set of circumstances. But everyone works hard. And the people that seem like they have it all, and enough money to be a SAHM and drink ice coffee--most of the time those people also have big issues too. Not everything comes down to money. People with medical issues, shalom bayis issues, a struggling or challenging child, past trauma, depression...even frequent pregnancies. We all have our plates full and have do dedicate ourselves to our mental and physical health in order to thrive.

amother

Purple

Tue, Oct 30 2018, 4:00 pm

I feel like I'm managing pretty well. I work almost full time but from home. My husband has an excellent job and is home at normal hours. I only have 3 kids the youngest is 9. My kids are regular kids. Not super easy but not extremely difficult. I have cleaning help 2x a week. If I don't get to make supper I buy.
There's definitely the rush of keeping up with dr. and dentist appointments, speech therapy, after school activities etc... but I'm managing just fine.

I'm sorry if that makes anyone feel bad. For me I feel like it's the small family size and no little kids that help me manage. I was for sure more in survival mode when my kids were babies.
I had to stop having kids because of medical issues and always tell dh it's the biggest blessing in disguise. I was raised very chassidish and naturally would've been aghast at the idea of birth control. I'm glad I was forced into it. Made me realize life can actually be manageable and enjoyable.

SuperWify

Tue, Oct 30 2018, 4:41 pm

Great question op. I think I’m managing. Today at least. Supper is ready, House is clean, baby’s playing nicely and I’m here chilling but... why don't you decide for me?

I’m not sure what managing means.... is it just barely surviving or managing beautifully?

We wear nice clean up to date clothes each day (I have a clean load waiting to be folded). House looks clean but on a second glance floors need to be mopped. (I have no cleaning help ATM Sad

)
Breakfast is always cereal I don’t have time to patchke. I do bake a muffin or oatmeal bars for a healthier snack. Suppers take no longer than half hour to prepare. Shabbos is extremely simple unless I have company, I use as many shortcuts as I can.
I strictly go food shopping once a week.

I take good care of myself. I buy myself nice clothes, my sheitels are always freshly set. I try to do my nails and always wear makeup. My mornings before work is sacred me time.
My evenings are spent watching movies, chilling with DH or out with friends.

Even with all this easy schedule- I have one kid- I’m always busy with him, taking him to therapies, playing with him ect. Until bedtime lol. When I’m not at work I’m always busy doing errands, cleaning my house, childcare, cooking ect.

But Bh even though I’m tired most of the time I think I’ve finally got a handle on my life.

Until the next one comes along....🙄

DVOM

Tue, Oct 30 2018, 5:00 pm

This is a strangely difficult question to answer. My brain tends to tell me that I'm only coping when the house is clean, squeaky clean. I'm not sure where this belief came from, because I wasn't a naturally clean kid and grew up in a kind of cluttered, comfortably messy, but very functional home, but now as an adult if the house isn't clutter free I feel tense and snappy. So I spend a lot of time cleaning (no cleaning help). But I think I'm giving a clean house way more importance and weight than it should have. And there are so many things I would love to do (paint, write, sew, scrapbook, take longs walks in the woods) that I seem to never have time for because there is a never-ending list of housekeeping jobs to do. I feel like some of the creative, introspective, spiritual parts of me are atrophying.

I think I'm a good mom to my kids. I know I really love being their mother. I'm curious and playful and empathic to them. So that's coping. I also think I'm a good wife. I invest time and energy and care into this relationship. Another check for coping. I work full time, and my employers and clients are happy with the job I do. I know I could do better, but this is an area of my life that tends to get neglected in the face of all the other stuff I need to do. So that's an X on the coping scale.

Keeping the house well stocked with groceries? Kinda. Nutritious meals? Kinda. Clean clothes? Also kinda. Homework? Most of the time. Keeping up with doctor and dentist visits for me and the kids? Also most of the time.

Where does all this leave me? Kinda coping most of the time. I do my best.

Last edited by DVOM on Tue, Oct 30 2018, 5:39 pm; edited 1 time in total

zaq

Tue, Oct 30 2018, 5:46 pm

amother wrote:

Without a doubt--(though I never learned that being pretty is an obligation, and I don't see how being tzanua takes much time.) Just consider that we make what is essentially a Thanksgiving dinner every week, and Good Housekeeping has an entire issue every year dedicated to How To Prepare for Thanksgiving With Your Sanity and Family Intact for ONE dinner! Boy do I remember biting my tongue when my coworker moaned about the money she was shelling out for her kid to go to private university. It was about what I was paying to send my kids to preschool.

But--nonJewish women are not all corporate lawyers married to cardiologists with fulltime live-in help. Many marry young and poor or just have babies young and poor with no husband to support or help. (My coworker mentioned above married at 16, and her hubby was 19. She worked fulltime her whole life, which was good because her dh was unemployed more than once. She has had relatives live with her when they came to this country, sometimes for several years, without contributing a cent. She visits the sick on a regular basis.) Many put their dh or themselves through school--or not. Many do a lot of volunteer work. They may not view it as a religious imperative as we do but social conscience is not limited to members of the tribe. They also have the burden of social expectations to live up to. Different expectations from ours, but expectations even so.

Yes, "managing" is harder for a frum woman, but I don't buy the self=pitying idea that only "we" have it hard. Everyone has it hard, just some have it harder than others. It's not just a frum woman's problem. It's a homemaker's problem, whether she's Jewish or Hindu, has three kids in a tent or 10 in a three--bedroom apartment, works outside the home 40 hours a week or is a sahm. And the more we obsess about how hard we have it, the more despondent we grow and the less motivated we are to find solutions.

keym

Tue, Oct 30 2018, 6:11 pm

zaq wrote:

I think the more unique issues frum women deal with is living in "mixed means" communities and sending our kids to "mixed means" schools.
In the secular world, neighborhoods often end up being divided by financed (lower, middle, upper) so your kids play, you're friends with, and your kids go to school with people of approx similar means. Of course its not perfect.
In our communities where we tend to congregate in neighborhoods by religious affiliation/shul affiliation and not means. So my kids have kids in their classes fabulously wealthy and dirt poor.
It puts a lot of (self created sometimes) pressure on women. My next door neighbor has 40 hours a week of cleaning help, is a sahm, and sends her two year old to playgroup. Of course her house is gleaming, she serves four course expensive suppers every night, she finished cooking shabbos already, etc. Compare that to me who works full time at home, has 2 hours a week of cleaning, and served grilled cheese for supper.
Its going to make me feel like I'm not coping when my toys are still on the floor or my laundry isn't folded.

amother

Periwinkle

Tue, Oct 30 2018, 6:42 pm

Depends on the definition of coping. According to the superwoman definition, yeah, most people probably aren't coping. According to basic standards (not living in squalor, kids are clean, have clean clothes to wear, eat reasonably nutritious meals) then I would hope most people are coping! At that point, "most people are floundering" would be an excuse, more than a reassurance.

Dh and I both work full time and have a lot of cleaning help. Things are hectic and I sometimes feel like I'm not managing, especially if a bunch of unusual things are happening at the same time, but on the whole, we really are managing. House is clean and laundry is done. No thanks to us, all credit to the cleaning lady, but the point is, the house is clean and the laundry is done. I cook every other night. Not necessarily the most nutritious stuff, and not every kid will eat everything on a given day, but there is always a protein, starch, and vegetable available. I allow more screen time than I'd like to in theory, but it doesn't seem to have turned their brains to mush yet. They love reading and learning and playing outside too. I make time for dh. More would always be better, but it's enough, even if we're not leaving the house on a proper date every single week. I try to daven once a day but don't always succeed. I usually manage to have guests about once a month. I don't have a lot of time for maintaining friendships, but I'm ok with that. I'm not so on top of my weight loss efforts, which I'm not so ok with, but I need a lot of motivation to stick to it, and sometimes the best I can do is do enough to not gain. There are a number of highly critical people in my life who think I'm not coping, but I've come to realize that's their problem and not mine. They have the aforementioned superwoman standards. I'm doing well enough by all reasonable standards.

zaq

Tue, Oct 30 2018, 7:23 pm

There’s a difference between coping and managing. Coping means feeling that you’re in control of a situation or at least successfully dealing with it. It’s subjective. Managing is objectively controlling or successfully dealing with a situation.

So if your kids are at the top of their class, you’re Mother of the Year and your house is spotless, you’re managing spectacularly well. But if as a result you’re a nervous wreck, feel as if you’re treading water all day every day, and started scarfing down Valium like M&Ms, you’re not coping well at all.

amother

Brunette

Tue, Oct 30 2018, 7:27 pm

I manage very well and im not stressed at all. I work but make sure to be fully available once my kids get home from school, allowing me to be a calm and present mother. Most days I have a really nice dinner ready by 5.
I am very scheduled and I find that helps a lot. My mind is very organized so I make sure next days ingredients for meals, snacks ect are in the house.
My dh works but till around 4 so he is pretty available in the afternoon for errands and help with homework. He makes himself avail for the morning rush by working his davening schedule around that and he prepares a hot breakfast of eggs, french toast act while im busy dressing and getting the kids ready for school.
I recently got 2 hrs cleaning help a week (had none for a while) and manage to clean, laundry ect and im very clean and organized.
I do need to take off days here and there for appointments, those days are harder.
Just as I plan my days I do my family planning as well. I dont consult with rabbanim, this is a decision only dh and I should make (yes were very frum). We know we would be too stressed if we had more than we can handle so we only have what we can handle!
I cant say there are never stressful times but for the most part we are a very functioning happy family. This isnt a post to brag at all just saying its possible.
ps. 2 of my children are very difficult and require more of my energy.