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Theyre mostly mentally ill loners, busy on hate-social media



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Mevater




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 31 2018, 9:02 am
Availability of guns is a major factor as well, but theres most often the combination of two other factors divulged post-crime, that most of the perps have in common.

The greater percentage are

1-Socially awkward loners with varying degrees of mental illness,

combined with

2-Livid seething hate for a specific group or groups of people, that they busy themselves with on social media, where they get inspired and inspire others.

Thats the "killer" recipe.

Being that UNTIL they commit a crime, theres nothing that can be done, were just waiting for the next perp to do just as others have done before him, kill innocents.
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amother
Mint


 

Post Wed, Oct 31 2018, 9:25 am
So I am left to wonder why are active social media bigots allowed access to guns?
I'm not American and this meshuggeh Second Amendment idolization is just inane.
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southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 31 2018, 9:35 am
Mevater wrote:
Availability of guns is a major factor as well, but theres most often the combination of two other factors divulged post-crime, that most of the perps have in common.

The greater percentage are

1-Socially awkward loners with varying degrees of mental illness,

combined with

2-Livid seething hate for a specific group or groups of people, that they busy themselves with on social media, where they get inspired and inspire others.

Thats the "killer" recipe.

Being that UNTIL they commit a crime, theres nothing that can be done, were just waiting for the next perp to do just as others have done before him, kill innocents.



I know someone who got caught up in these online hate groups and the person is very insecure and loves the positive attention that he gets from agreeing with these groups. Some of these groups that meet IRL are almost like cults where leaving the group can get the person killed.

Most of the time, the hater knows very little if anything about the people that he hates. It is just a vehicle for social acceptance for people who are not included by others IRL.
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SixOfWands




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 31 2018, 9:39 am
amother wrote:
So I am left to wonder why are active social media bigots allowed access to guns?
I'm not American and this meshuggeh Second Amendment idolization is just inane.


Because no one checks things like that. And because you can't diagnose from online comments.

And because some gun rights activists have convinced people that any regulation will inevitably lead to confiscation of all guns. I support gun control legislation. And I support the rights of responsible gun owners.
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amother
Mint


 

Post Wed, Oct 31 2018, 9:41 am
SixOfWands wrote:
Because no one checks things like that. And because you can't diagnose from online comments.

.


So someone should check these things. Heck, you can't get hired anywhere respectable if you post something inappropriate. Why should you be able to get a gun?
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southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 31 2018, 9:42 am
SixOfWands wrote:
Because no one checks things like that. And because you can't diagnose from online comments.

And because some gun rights activists have convinced people that any regulation will inevitably lead to confiscation of all guns. I support gun control legislation. And I support the rights of responsible gun owners.



After Sandy Hook, I think that CT passed a law against weapons of mass destruction such as high powered rifles. I am not sure, however, if it means that no one there owns one.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 31 2018, 9:58 am
Since the emptying of mental hospitals in the 70's, and consistent defunding of mental health services all across America, we have seen these incidents rise.

If you want a safe and sane country, deal with the mental health issues first, and then the gun problem will take care of itself.

Otherwise, you'll just have a bunch of mentally unwell people looking for different weapons to use, since they can't get guns (which would be an improvement, but I still think the first option is better.)

Because of HIPPA, there is no mental health background check for gun ownership, and I think that needs to change. This is coming from me, a person with mental health issues, former gun owner, and Libertarian.

You see what I did there? I just denied myself the right to defend myself with a gun. That's how strongly I feel about this.

(I also support the right to arm bears. It levels the playing field. Wink )
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Mevater




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 31 2018, 10:00 am
Drugs are illegal and yet you can get them in every neighborhood. Were fooling ourselves if we think that hot-headed future perps wont easily get guns, for a price, even if illegal and harder to get. That wont make it impossible.

If theres any hope for lessening hate crimes, its government supervision of social media, and tightening rules for allowable speech. Now, nothing can be done, until its too late.
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amother
Firebrick


 

Post Wed, Oct 31 2018, 10:06 am
FranticFrummie wrote:
Since the emptying of mental hospitals in the 70's, and consistent defunding of mental health services all across America, we have seen these incidents rise.

If you want a safe and sane country, deal with the mental health issues first, and then the gun problem will take care of itself.

Otherwise, you'll just have a bunch of mentally unwell people looking for different weapons to use, since they can't get guns (which would be an improvement, but I still think the first option is better.)


I've wondered about this. Either America has a significantly higher proportion of mentally ill people compared to other Western countries, or easy access to guns is allowing unwell individuals to go on shooting sprees. It is likely the latter.
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chestnut




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 31 2018, 10:24 am
And these ppl won't be able to get guns illegally, right?
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 31 2018, 10:27 am
Here's another sticky question. How do we differentiate between terror attacks / hate crimes, and just plain mental illness.

It's possible to be nutty as a squirrel, and be a kind and gentle person.
It's possible to be a perfectly sane jihadi or neo-Nazi.

Regarding the regulation of social media, we already have laws against "call to action" and "incitement". Even these are rarely enforced. You can't criminalize someone having an extremely wrong and unpopular opinion. Even more so if that opinion is shared by a whole bunch of other haters or terrorists. As long as you keep it to "I think" or "I feel", you're in the safe zone.

Is "I think Obama was a bad president" a call for someone to kill him? Do you really want to see the day when that kind of speech is censored and even prosecuted? Just look at what happens to political dissidents in China, or religious minorities in the Middle East. Not to mention North Korea, that just takes it way over the top. This makes "1984" look benign by comparison.
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sushilover




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 31 2018, 10:35 am
SixOfWands wrote:
Because no one checks things like that. And because you can't diagnose from online comments.

And because some gun rights activists have convinced people that any regulation will inevitably lead to confiscation of all guns. I support gun control legislation. And I support the rights of responsible gun owners.


Most gun rights activists are supportive of reasonable gun laws. Our definition of reasonable may be different than yours (mostly because we know more about guns than you do. Sorry, I'm not trying to sound conceited).
But don't make it sound like we are against ANY regulation.
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Mevater




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Nov 02 2018, 12:39 am
Days After Synagogue Massacre, Online Hate Is Thriving
By The Associated Press

A website popular with racists that was used by the man charged in the Pittsburgh synagogue massacre was shut down within hours of the slaughter, but it hardly mattered: Anti-Semites and racists who hang out in such havens just moved to other online forums.

On Wednesday, four days after 11 people were fatally shot in the deadliest attack on Jews in U.S. history, anonymous posters on another website popular with white supremacists, Stormfront, claimed the bloodshed at Tree of Life synagogue was an elaborate fake staged by actors. The site’s operator, a former Ku Klux Klan leader, said traffic has increased about 45 percent since the shooting.


The anti-Semitic rhetoric was just as bad on another site popular with white supremacists, The Daily Stormer, where a headline said: “Just go, Jews. You’re not welcome.”

Trying to stop the online vitriol that opponents say fuels real-world bloodshed is a constant battle for groups that monitor hate, and victories are hard to come by. Shut down one platform like Gab, where the shooting suspect posted a message shortly before the attack, and another one remains or a new one opens.

The problem dates back to the dawn of the internet, when users connected their computers to each other by dialing telephone numbers. A report issued by the New York-based Anti-Defamation League in 1985 found there were two online “networks of hate” in the United States, both run by neo-Nazis who spread anti-Semitic, racist propaganda.

Today, the vastness of the online world is a big part of the problem, said Oren Segal, director of the ADL’s Center for Extremism. Determining how many hate sites exist is nearly impossible, he said.

“It’s really difficult to put an actual number on it, but I would say this: There are thousands of hate sites and there are dozens and dozens of platforms in which hate exists,” Segal said.

A new study by the VOX-Pol Network of Excellence, composed of academic researchers who study online extremism, said the exact number of far-right adherents on just one platform, Twitter, is impossible to determine. But at least 100,000 people and automated accounts are aligned with radicals commonly referred to as the “alt-right,” the study found, and the true number is probably more than twice that.

An ADL report released a day before the shooting said extremists had increased anti-Semitic harassment against Jewish journalists, political candidates and others ahead of the midterm elections. Researchers who analyzed more than 7.5 million Twitter messages from Aug. 31 to Sept. 17 found almost 30 percent of the accounts repeatedly tweeting derogatory terms about Jews appeared to be automated “bots” that spread the message further and faster than if only people were involved.

The New York-based ADL said that before the 2016 election of President Donald Trump anti-Semitic harassment was rare, but afterward it became a daily occurrence. It commissioned a report in May that estimated about 3 million Twitter users posted or re-posted at least 4.2 million anti-Semitic tweets in English over a 12-month period ending Jan. 28.

The story of Gab, the platform where Robert Gregory Bowers allegedly wrote an ominous message early Saturday before the shooting, shows how new sites spring up in a hate-filled environment.

Created in 2016 to counter what founder Andrew Torba viewed as liberal censorship on social networks, Gab gained popularity among white supremacists and other right-wing radicals after tech companies clamped down on racist sites following the deadly clash at a white nationalist rally in Charlottesville, Virginia. The Daily Stormer was offline briefly after the violence but re-emerged on a new host.

With Gab now shut down after the synagogue shooting, Torba is portraying the platform not as a hate-filled corner of the internet, but as a bastion of free speech that’s working with federal authorities “to bring justice to an alleged terrorist.”

A message posted by Torba said Gab was trying to get back online, and Segal has few doubts it will succeed.

Don Black, the former Klan leader who runs Stormfront, said traffic is up partly because of the Gab shutdown and partly because of increased interest among users. His site, which has been in operation since 1995 and has about 330,000 registered users, has only had one “prolonged” shutdown — a month following the Charlottesville melee, he said.

“I expect all sorts of more trouble now because of the Pittsburgh shooting,” Black said.

Purging hateful content from the internet is a challenge. The Constitution’s guarantee of free-speech provides a roadblock to banning hate speech in the United States, according to the First Amendment Center, a project of the Washington-based Freedom Forum Institute.

“Political speech receives the greatest protection under the First Amendment, and discrimination against viewpoints runs counter to free-speech principles. Much hate speech qualifies as political, even if misguided,” said an essay by center scholar David L. Hudson Jr. and Mahad Ghani, a fellow with the center.

Some advocate other tactics for curbing hate.

Three days before the synagogue attack, a coalition that includes the Alabama-based Southern Poverty Law Center, a liberal advocacy organization that monitors hate groups, released a proposed framework aimed at social media companies.

The plan is geared around a model terms-of-service policy that states that platform users “may not use these services to engage in hateful activities or use these services to facilitate hateful activities engaged in elsewhere.” Next year, sponsors plan to begin posting report cards showing how sites are doing at quelling hate speech.

No company has publicly announced plans to adopt the coalition’s guidelines, but Segal said the ADL separately has talked with several social media companies about limiting hate speech. Companies have been welcoming but solutions remain elusive, he said.

Segal added: “The commitment to eradicating hate from platforms is not always matched by the ability to do so because there is just so much content out there.”

https://www.nytimes.com/aponli......html

https://www.theyeshivaworld.co......html
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tigerwife




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Nov 02 2018, 12:52 am
I believe that the graphic violence and gore in popular TV shows and video games is a contributing factor in some cases. People become numb to bloodshed and murder.
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Mevater




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Nov 02 2018, 12:56 am
tigerwife wrote:
I believe that the graphic violence and gore in popular TV shows and video games is a contributing factor in some cases. People become numb to bloodshed and murder.


If that would be the case, they would be looking for random victims, not posting about their dream, a world free of Jews.
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tigerwife




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Nov 02 2018, 12:59 am
Mevater wrote:
If that would be the case, they would be looking for random victims, not posting about their dream, a world free of Jews.


I am thinking back to the joker murder in the theater years ago... obviously that guy had mental issues but he was also a gamer. I think some of the younger HS shooters could have been influenced by this as well. I don’t believe every shooting is political. However, the recent shooting was definitely anti Semitic.
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allthingsblue




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Nov 02 2018, 8:34 am
Mevater wrote:
Drugs are illegal and yet you can get them in every neighborhood. Were fooling ourselves if we think that hot-headed future perps wont easily get guns, for a price, even if illegal and harder to get. That wont make it impossible.

If theres any hope for lessening hate crimes, its government supervision of social media, and tightening rules for allowable speech. Now, nothing can be done, until its too late.


If they're harder to get, they'll be less prevalent which mean less shootings.

Policing free speech is NOT the way to go and is sure to anger these crazy people. That would be simply addressing the symptoms, not the disease.

Why are republicans so anti background checks and gun control laws? Not NO guns, just LESS guns. Why on earth don't they agree?
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sushilover




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Nov 02 2018, 9:38 am
allthingsblue wrote:
Why are republicans so anti background checks and gun control laws? Not NO guns, just LESS guns. Why on earth don't they agree?


Republicans are not anti background checks. It is federal law and was supported by the NRA. If the background checks are not enforced or updated properly, we should change that before adding more and more laws that won't be enforced properly.

We are anti gun control laws that only make you feel like you are doing something to prevent gun violence, but in actuality don't help at all.

An example would be gun free zones. Sounds great in theory, right? My daughter's school just had training by a private security team, and they said that over 90 percent of all mass shootings have taken place in gun free zones.
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