Torah/science amazing proofs

bigsis144

Tue, Nov 06 2018, 12:54 am

dankbar wrote:

291=ארץ
Minus
12
------
279
2+7+9=18
1+8=9

You don't have to give more examples, I proved to you with algebraic statements a page ago that this will *always* work. A number minus the sum of its digits will always be a multiple of 9.

If A = 1, B = 2, and we continue with K = 10, L = 20, like in the Hebrew gematria system, etc., then:

The “English gematriya” of ape (I’m picking a short word, ‘Kay? I could just as well do ”dankbar” or “mathematics”) would be:
(1 + 60 + 5) - (1 + 6 + 5)
66-12=54
5+4=9

Please have some mathematical literacy.
(Modular arithmetic is the branch of math that deals with this kind of thing, I believe.)

Sleepymama

Tue, Nov 06 2018, 1:14 am

Big sis you're awesome!
I wish I understood math like you do. To me, seems like a mysterious language with secret codes that only some minds are privy to. Thank you for clarifying that this works with ALL words so I don't use it as a "kiruv tool" at my shabbos table and end up looking like a fool to some mathematician

bigsis144

Tue, Nov 06 2018, 1:21 am

dankbar wrote:

Same thing is why Torah starts with beis not aleph. Emes is nine & shaker is 6. If u add up every three letters...bais 2 + gimmel 3 + daled 4= 9. Next hay5+vav6+zayin7=18 (1+8=9)
Ches8 tes 9 yud 10=27 (2+7=9)

dankbar wrote:

If we started Torah with Aleph it would come to 6 sheker. Aleph1 bais2 gimmel 3=6 sheker.cv. daled 4 hay 5 vav6=15 ( 1+5=6) so on so forth. Therefore Hashem started Torah with a beis to show Torah is emes.

So you’re trying to say that the sum of any three consecutive integers is either divisible by 9 (Emes) or 6 (sheker).

Let’s see:
x + (x + 1) + (x + 2)
Simplifies to
3x + 3
“Pull out” the 3 to get
3(x+1)

So we’ve proven algebraically that the sum of any three consecutive integers will be divisible by 3.

Now the only difference is if you start with an odd or even number.

Multiples of 6 are divisible by both 2 and 3 (these are rules I taught my fifth graders!), so if x is odd, then your final sum will be by definition divisible by 6, since the number in the parentheses will have been turned even by the +1.

Ex. 3(x+1) plugging in 5 for x:
3(5+1)=3(6)=18, which is divisible by 6.
Plug in 13 for x:
3(13+1)=3(14)=42, which is divisible by 6.

Next thing you’ll tell me 666 is the Devil’s Number... 🙄

ETA: I need to come back and fix my explanation in the morning, it actually has to do with the remainders when you divide the initial number by 3 and not odd vs. even... don't get mad at my math, it’s 2am, I just need to sleep....

Last edited by bigsis144 on Tue, Nov 06 2018, 2:08 am; edited 2 times in total

bigsis144

Tue, Nov 06 2018, 1:27 am

Sleepymama wrote:

Thank you! I love math and I’m passionate about explaining it clearly 💙

I only have a bachelors in math, so I am far from a mathematician - it’s just enough to know how much I don’t know, ya know? 😁

ggdm

Tue, Nov 06 2018, 6:38 am

Bidsis, you ruined my day, I was looking forward to doing this math myself Wink

(joke, thank you for very clear explanations).

Independent of the math. If someone says "all words in the Torah have X", you need to do two things:
1) Check that X is true for words in the Torah.You probably don't want to check ALL words, but it is sufficient to find one word that does not have X to make the original statement false.
2) Check that X is NOT true for words not in the Torah. If it were, having X would not be anything special.

So for the "divisible by 9" rule, we could check מחשב (computer, not in the Torah, I assume) = 40 + 8 + 300 + 2 = 450, 4 + 5 + 0 = 9. So computers are emet, too! I don't know how to say smartphone in Hebrew, or p-rn or any other "unholy" word that we could check, but you get the idea.

dankbar

Tue, Nov 06 2018, 6:59 am

To start from the beginning:

שָּׁמַ֖יִם = 300 + 40 + 40 + 10 = 390 = 12 = 3

אָֽרֶץ = 1 + 200 + 90 = 291 = 12 = 3

תְה֑וֹם = 400 + 5+ 6 + 40 = 451 = 10 = 1

ר֣וּחַ = 200 + 6 + 8 = 214 = 7

There are obviously some words whose mispar katan does equal 9 (e.g. א֑וֹר = 200 + 6 + 1 = = 9) but assuming a uniform distribution of "mispar katan"s, we'd get 1/9 of all nouns having a mispar katan of 9 and I don't see any indication that the incidence exceeds that.

I assume that I'm misreading your post, though.[/quote]
=שמים
390-12=378
3+7+8=18
1+8=9

=ארץ
291-12=279
2+7+9 =18
1+8=9
=תהום
451-10=441
4+4+1=9

dankbar

Tue, Nov 06 2018, 7:09 am

There are many hidden sodos in the Torah's text not only what we see the actual words mean. Many nevios also hidden that we saw later when things happened, people found the remazim that was right there years earlier on text....but only if you are willing to see the truth & not otherwise.

ggdm

Tue, Nov 06 2018, 7:21 am

dankbar wrote:

I'm not trying to have a math conversation here I am trying to show you that the words in Torah is emes....if you are trying to go against the Torah then.....

We are not trying to go against Torah. We are trying to show you that what you say is true for words in the Torah (gematria value minus mispar katan gives a number that is divisible by 9), actually is true for just EVERY word, even those not in the Torah. It takes math to do that, because it is a mathematical "proof".

It will do your cause a real disservice to use this as a proof. People who know a bit of math can disprove it very quickly (as bigsis did). And how open do you think will they afterwards be for other proofs? So, please, stop.

dankbar

Tue, Nov 06 2018, 7:24 am

bigsis144 wrote:

With your math knowledge here about odd or even.....it proves your point even more....this is reason Hashem created the world with a Beis to show world is emes....he could've just created the world with an Aleph but chose not to because then it would show on sheker6 . That is why big Torah scholars don't need math classes because it's all in the Torah.

bigsis144

Tue, Nov 06 2018, 7:28 am

dankbar wrote:

I'm not trying to have a math conversation here I am trying to show you that the words in Torah is emes....if you are trying to go against the Torah then.....

If you’re going to use math as a “proof”, then you are choosing to have a conversation in math’s territory.

Math has proven than your rule is not unique to
Torah (as I showed it worked for English words and ggdm showed for modern Ivrit as well if you only understand examples; the algebra was to prove that this is an arithmetic rule and will work in every case no matter what you plug in).

If this numerical shtickiness makes you feel like it’s proof of something, I won’t try to take that from you.

Keep using your k’sheh oref for good, I hope your emunah peshutah stays strong forever (no sarcasm! I really mean this!).

But you will only embarrass yourself by digging in your heels and demonstrating that you aren’t actually listening to the person you’re debating when it comes to these kinds of “proofs”.

Last edited by bigsis144 on Tue, Nov 06 2018, 7:33 am; edited 1 time in total

ggdm

Tue, Nov 06 2018, 7:33 am

Quote:

=שמים
390-12=378
3+7+8=18
1+8=9

=ארץ
291-12=279
2+7+9 =18
1+8=9
=תהום
451-10=441
4+4+1=9

Re-read your post. You are doing something slightly different here than what bigsis and me assumed. We thought you meant a number minus its mispar katan is divisible by 9. You say its mispar katan IS 9. But that's the same thing. If a number is divisible by 9, its mispar katan is divisible by nine. (That is one of the division rules you learn at school). If you go on doing the mispar katan of a mispar katan that is divisible by 9, it ultimalely will be 9 itself, which is the smallest number divisible by 9.

ggdm

Tue, Nov 06 2018, 7:46 am

dankbar wrote:

Cute, but there are three possibilities:
start with alef: 1 + 2 + 3 = 6 (sheker, as you say)
start with bet: 2 + 3 + 4 = 9 (emet, as you say)
start with gimel: 3 + 4 + 5 = 12 what do you say then?

As much fun as this is, I need to be off now to make lunch and take care of my baby. I will be back in the evening.

bigsis144

Tue, Nov 06 2018, 8:01 am

ggdm wrote:

I also have to take care of my kids... agh, I need to put my phone AWAY....

This is what I was saying re: the pattern being based on remainders.

You have three possibilities:
• numbers that when divided by 3 will give you a remainder of 0: 0, 3, 6, 9, etc.
• numbers that when divided by 3 will give you a remainder of 1: 1, 4, 7, 10, etc.
• numbers that when divided by 3 will give you a remainder of 2: 2, 5, 8, 11, etc.