Uncovered hair | Imamother

Shoshana37

Mon, Nov 05 2018, 4:45 pm

I appreciate everyone’s none judgmental comments. Please do note I do wear winter hat or caps and my short hair is showing under it. The only time it’s uncovered when I’m alone with my husband including when we are in public out on date or visiting family. Please do understand none of our family members cover their hair it’s very normal in our circle.
I’m only conserned to make sure my girls stay in that school. I love the teachers and everything about this school. I just don’t want to ruin chances for my girls.
FYI my husband would never ask me to wear pants or anything else that you are mentioning. When we got married I wasn’t covering my hair I took that upon my self 10 years ago with out my husband ever agreeing.

professor

Mon, Nov 05 2018, 5:21 pm

NovelConcept wrote:

Honestly, I think that would be more of a reason to kick a family out of a school then honestly going uncovered.

To try to fool the world with a headband is like a chazir who sticks out his toes and says, "I'm kosher!"

If the OP is uncovering her hair for whatever reason, at least not add dishonesty to the mix. There is hiding, from shame, hoping that no one will see her -- which is a normal human reaction. And then there is plain deceit.

I don't know OP's struggles, and my heart hurts for her that she is going through something that is causing her to lower her standards to below that of the Torah's. It can't be easy.
But at least it is a legitimate struggle. People struggle, but it's not a game.

There is no reason to turn this into a game of how many people can she fool

Whoa...

I had to stop for a second. Sorry. Hair covering is a private thing. A wide headband is a GREAT idea if OP wants it. It is NO ONE'S business If she is wearing a fall or her hair. It is nothing like a pig who says I am kosher. No one eats a woman with a fall but doesn't eat an uncovered hair.

In fact, the whole point of a fall is for women to look like they are not covering their hair whole really they are.

tichellady

Mon, Nov 05 2018, 5:28 pm

professor wrote:

I agree. I think this is good advice to wear a wide headband

southernbubby

Mon, Nov 05 2018, 7:39 pm

I think that it is very disadvantageous to kids to change horses mid-stream unless the whole family is willing to change. This of course works both ways because if someone who is not frum and has teenagers becomes frum, they can't expect the kids to go along with it automatically.

I don't know about that particular school but I think that once we put our kids on a certain track, we are often stuck with carrying through for the sake of the kids. I feel sorry for the kids if the school rejects them because of their mother's decision but some of these schools do have that policy.

I respect that the decision is one made by this couple together, but the kids are the ones who may pay a price for that decision.

I think that when we choose a school for our kids, we have to think long term as to whether or not we can really handle it and if it really is the derech that we are intending to follow.

The head band only looks good if the hair is at least chin length.

Seas

Mon, Nov 05 2018, 7:48 pm

NovelConcept wrote:

Not necessarily. There is something to be said for still being ashamed of your aveiros. Brazenly transgressing halacha is much worse than secretly stumbling.

Cheiny

Mon, Nov 05 2018, 7:51 pm

Shoshana37 wrote:

That’s very admirable that you took it upon yourself, so why do away with it after 10 years?

NovelConcept

Mon, Nov 05 2018, 7:53 pm

Maya wrote:

A wide headband can be a legitimate hair covering, and as long as the OP doesn’t specifically say that she’s wearing a band fall, she’s not fooling anyone by allowing people to assume whatever they want. I don’t understand why this is dishonest.

irrational rose specifically said: can you just wear a wide headband when you go out so it looks like you are wearing a headband fall?

If OP is on the level of only covering with a headband for now, I'm not one to say anything against that, but the deceit implicit in irrational rose's suggestion, I am.

NovelConcept

Mon, Nov 05 2018, 7:59 pm

Shoshana37 wrote:

Shoshana, I hope you understood that my comment about wearing a wide band to pretend you are wearing a fall is deceitful does not reflect on YOU, but on that poster's intention.
I think it is very beautiful that you have gone up in the past, and have done so despite your crowd.

NovelConcept

Mon, Nov 05 2018, 8:05 pm

professor wrote:

I find it mind-boggling that some people here know how to READ but not UNDERSTAND.
Basic reading comprehension reveals that I said the intention to fool is deceitful and nothing about her manner of covering.

professor

Mon, Nov 05 2018, 8:31 pm

Cheiny wrote:

Huh? I thought “the whole point” of a fall, or wig, or any head covering, is to be mekayem the mitzva or covering the hair.

To be mekayem the mitzvah of covering the hair and at the same time look like you are not is the whole point.

I am sorry I was not clear before.
What I meant to say was that the whole point of a fall is to look as if it's your hair while really you are covered.

bluebird

Mon, Nov 05 2018, 9:50 pm

You will get more helpful advice if you post with a different title and leave out details that will distract people into judging you. People who live in your area are more likely to see it, if they skipped this thread.

"School Name in City - acceptance of mothers who don't always cover hair" would probably get you the actual information you want.

erm

Tue, Nov 06 2018, 12:04 am

I don't think anyone here would be able to answer the question of what the school will do. My concern is that your kids will quickly pick up on all the things you are hiding and no school can rectify the damage you will cause by leading 2 lives. You like the school and teachers and agree with what they are teaching your kids, then you need to follow it too. If not, find one that works for your family. Pick one way of life and stick to it. Consistency is very important when raising children.

PinkFridge

Tue, Nov 06 2018, 7:22 am

OP, I wouldn't kick your child out if you were good parents, supporting the school. If I had children or grandchildren in the school I would not be threatened by your being a parent. I would wonder if you were making other changes in your lifestyle based on this and dance around sending my daughter to play with yours, unless I was really comfortable asking you if you were making other changes such as media, kashrus. I don't know if this is fair, but this is the reality.

But I join other people here concerned about this step. You decided to cover for hashkafic reasons. As much as there are many things we do for our husbands, this too should be a hashkafic decision, and you would have every right to consult with an IRL mentor. You said you don't want to talk about your decision and you have every right not to. I just really really hope that this is a decision you are 1000% comfortable with, for yourself, for what you're normalizing for your children, and in any other area you can think of.

(To everyone else: Yes, I know people don't cover, and yes, they have halachic bases for doing so even if those aren't the poskim I go to. But when you make a shift like this you are making a statement. Oh, and if you're going to say she has whom to rely on, will these be her poskim and mentors in other areas of life?)

Shoshana37

Tue, Nov 06 2018, 9:42 am

OP here. Thank you all for your advise. I know my husband and I are very good parents, we are loving and caring. my husband is the most amazing loving father my kids could ever get. he is the best thing that ever happened to me. Honestly my husband never wanted me to cover my hair it always bothered him. I personally don't think that makes me less of good jewish woman or makes him the bad guy.
one of my daughters told me recently that I can't be mad at daddy because (he comes from very difunctional family, his father was alcoholic and there was never peace in their house) "despite the way he was raised he is the best dad and if me uncovering my hair makes him happy than let it be".
This came from my 10 year old daughter and I think we are doing amazing job raising them all and they are all very caring and loving children.
If school should ever find out and ask us to leave only then I will take them out. I don't personally think it should affect my girls education. I am very devoted parent and I do get involve in all school activities and volunteer my time and we pay full tuition. I believe Hashem knows that I am doing my best.
Btw I did get permission to uncover from a Chabad Rav.

Cheiny

Tue, Nov 06 2018, 10:09 am

Shoshana37 wrote:

I have to disagree that a husband making you (or convincing you) to give up your hashkafic practices (that you’ve kept for 10 years!) is “the best thing that ever happened” to you. And I find it hard to believe any Chabad rabbi would tell you it’s ok not to cover hair...the Lubavitcher Rebbe ZT”L was so makpid about women’s head coverings, he only allowed wigs, as any other coverings might show a bit of hair,,,,

mizle10

Tue, Nov 06 2018, 10:18 am

professor wrote:

Um, no. The whole point is that its comfortable and a cute look.

PinkFridge

Tue, Nov 06 2018, 11:11 am

Shoshana37, that post really gave us a lot of info.
First of all, the very good news is that your kids get it. Your doing this with the IRL input you have gotten IMO is a big part of it.

I will admit to finding it surprising. Look, from what I surmise, it took a lot of courage and hard work on both your and your husband's parts to get to where you were even before you started covering. And I don't know the whole story. I don't know how much the rav tried to get him to see that you could cover and still be the same person, that you wouldn't be pushing him to do anything he wasn't comfortable with. I just hope, for your sakes, that you exhausted all possibilities before taking this step.

And something else: that your kids have this genuine love and respect for your husband with the background you describe indicates that he has done a lot of important and good stuff to earn it and he should be heartily and regularly endorsed for that.

Rappel

Tue, Nov 06 2018, 11:18 am

Shoshana37 wrote:

I hope my kids and family are so together 10 years from now! Kol Hakavod!

I have no advice for you - I went to LBY back when Leah Zytman was principal, and I understand it has changed a lot since then - but I'm so glad to read about your healthy family dynamic. Kudos!