Farrakhan in Iran, Calls America “Great Satan”; ‘Death to

Mevater

Tue, Nov 06 2018, 5:01 pm

Amarante wrote:

The list of Republican conservatives who have left the party because of Trump is quite extensive

Jennifer Rubin - conservative columnist
Steve Schmidt - ran McCain's campaign and worked for George Bush
Joe Scarborough - ex Republican conservative Congressman
Michael Bloomberg
Mary Matalan
Gordon Humphrey - ex Senator NH

They dont have the same goals and dreams as most of us here do, as far as Israel and morality.

In the Orthodox world many have switched to voting Republican, nationally, in recent years, because of the positions taken on Israel.

SixOfWands

Tue, Nov 06 2018, 5:16 pm

Mevater wrote:

She answered your question, but once again, you switched gears.

But I'll bite.

What position on "morality" do you have that Michael Bloomberg, and all of the others listed, don't share.

And I ask this as someone who was never overly fond of Bloomberg.

Mevater

Tue, Nov 06 2018, 5:43 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

What position on "morality" do you have that Michael Bloomberg, and all of the others listed, don't share.

And I ask this as someone who was never overly fond of Bloomberg.

Personally, Im not in total agreement with some of the positions on morality issues, taken by many in the Orthodox community, more in tune with the Republican party, because I have a live and let live attitude, but to answer your question- Listen to any of the robocalls all this week in predominantly Orthodox neighborhoods,, look at the Charedi newspapers, and read any of the fliers, all quoting Gdolim, and it will be crystal clear.

HaMayvin, Yavin.

SixOfWands

Tue, Nov 06 2018, 5:59 pm

Mevater wrote:

I don't live in Brooklyn. I don't live in a predominantly Orrthodox neighborhood. I didn't get robocalls. I don't read the Charedi press.

And I don't know what any of this has to do with my question.

After a list of Republicans who are now supporting Democrats -- a list you asked for -- was provided, you said "They [Bloomberg, et al] dont have the same goals and dreams as most of us here do, as far as Israel and morality." I asked what "morality" that is. Why is that so difficult to answer?

Mevater

Tue, Nov 06 2018, 6:02 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

Legislation regarding Homozexuality

Fox

Tue, Nov 06 2018, 6:03 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

So. you're conflating racists and neo-Nazis running on the Republican ticket, and being supported by a majority of Republicans in their jurisdictions, with being placed on a podium with a racist at a memorial service.

That might indeed be an indictment of Republicans were it true, but it's not. The neo-Nazi loonies have all been denounced by the Republican Party at various levels.

But you are correct. I should not conflate a handful of loony neo-Nazis who are denounced by the leadership of their state and national party with a racist, anti-gay, anti-Semite who maintains relationships with a number of leaders in the Democratic Party.

The latter is much worse.

SixOfWands wrote:

You're conflating posters with Jews fondling money with meeting with people with whom you may disagree on some points -- or let's be honest, who are reprehensible on those points.

When "some points" include calling Jews "termites," then, yes. Yes, I do.

SixOfWands wrote:

Oh, and I thought that there were no "dog-whistles." I mean, when the Republicans talk about Soros, that's not talking about Jews. Or when we talk about all of those murderers and rapists. Not a dog whistle.

Of course there is such a thing as a dog whistle. But not everything is a dog whistle, and excessive focus on race, etc., often says more about the people listening than the people talking.

I believe we can adapt Natan Sharansky's 3D test of anti-Semitism in relation to criticism of Israel to criticism of Jews. Is criticism of George Soros automatically anti-Semitic? What about similar criticism of Sheldon Adelson? Some criticism might indeed be anti-Semitic, but certainly not all. It depends on the presence of double-standards, demonization, and delegitimization.

Is it racist to say we don't want immigrants who are rapists and murderers? Or is it more racist to act as if immigrants are by definition morally inferior and cannot therefore be held to the same standards?

SixOfWands wrote:

Let me ask you, is there ANYTHING that a Republican could do that you would find repugnant?

Plenty. If fact, I've given you examples in the past of things that soi disant Republicans have done that have been denounced by the leadership of the party.

But that still begs the question of why you believe that associating with an anti-Semitic white nationalist is a showstopper, while associating with an anti-Semitic black nationalist is just practicing the art of the possible.

Fox

Tue, Nov 06 2018, 6:37 pm

Amarante wrote:

This is an "extensive" list? Bloomberg, I'll grant you. The rest of these people are completely irrelevant and have been for some time.

However, because I am a kind and loving person, I'll help you out. Here are some conservatives/libertarians/Republicans who are regularly critical of Trump; have not succumbed to TDS; and who are generally taken seriously in conservative circles:

Jonah Goldberg
David French
David Frum
Andrew McCarthy
Virtually everybody associated with the "Intellectual Dark Web"
Most people who describe themselves as "Classical Liberal"

Some of these folks were rabid NeverTrumpers; others were more "wait-and-see" types. All are willing to call out Trump when they think he's wrong by using logic and evidence rather than simply stating their arguments as facts with which all good people must agree. Nor do any of them consider "I can't even" to constitute evidence.

Reality

Tue, Nov 06 2018, 8:18 pm

Fox wrote:

By the way, Bloomberg was never a conservative. He was always socially liberal.

And correct me if I am wrong, didn't he leave the republican party waaay before Trump?

Fox

Tue, Nov 06 2018, 8:53 pm

Reality wrote:

By the way, Bloomberg was never a conservative. He was always socially liberal.

And correct me if I am wrong, didn't he leave the republican party waaay before Trump?

Entirely possible. I don't live in NY, so I didn't follow him all that carefully.

IMHO, the Republican Party finally (and quite accidentally) hit the sweet spot of "fiscally conservative, socially liberal" that so many people describe as their ideal. Of course, I have no doubt that they'll grab every opportunity to mess up that balancing act -- there seems to be something about grabbing defeat from the jaws of victory that political parties just can't resist.

The biggest weak spot for Republicans in the next two years is health care. If they don't address that issue, Trump's popularity or lack thereof will recede in importance to voters.