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Non Vaccinating = "Murderer"
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thunderstorm









  


Post  Thu, Nov 08 2018, 11:29 am
https://www.theyeshivaworld.co.....ldren.html

Will the rabbis that sign exemptions agree with this ? Will they wake up? Or will this always be a chilukei dayos?
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ra_mom









  


Post  Thu, Nov 08 2018, 11:50 am
thunderstorm wrote:
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/israel-news/1618777/measles-outbreak-updates-israeli-poskim-not-vaccinating-is-murder-harav-fuerst-forbids-schools-from-taking-children.html

Will the rabbis that sign exemptions agree with this ? Will they wake up? Or will this always be a chilukei dayos?

Probably won't happen as long as R’ Malkiel Kotler and others support and endorse not vaccinating.
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lfab









  


Post  Thu, Nov 08 2018, 11:57 am
It's about time! I've been saying for weeks now that in my mind anyone who chooses not to vaccinate their child is personally responsible for any deaths or impairments that result from the another person catching the measles (even if they don't live anywhere near that individual). In my mind they are no different than someone who drives drunk and ends up killing/harming another individual.
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watergirl









  


Post  Thu, Nov 08 2018, 12:12 pm
The people who are not vaxxing will continue to not vax and this will not help. The truth is, the reportes deaths have been low (BH) and they love to say that this baby who died had other health issues that caused the death. These people laugh at us when we remark about the long term dangers of the illnesses and literally dont believe it.
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amother




Jetblack


Post  Thu, Nov 08 2018, 12:22 pm
watergirl wrote:
The people who are not vaxxing will continue to not vax and this will not help. The truth is, the reportes deaths have been low (BH) and they love to say that this baby who died had other health issues that caused the death. These people laugh at us when we remark about the long term dangers of the illnesses and literally dont believe it.

Do you or anyone else on here personally know someone who died or was damaged by the measles whether now or in the 60's?
Of course it makes a difference if the kid who died was Down Syndrome and also had a liver problem and staph infection and measles! You gotta be stupid to think otherwise. That baby could have died from any other virus too in such a compromised position. The kid was brought in to the hospital already dead! Kids don't die from one minute to the next. There was neglect involved here too. Let's be honest here. One of 1300 when that one had previous health conditions is not a very scary percentage at all! People don't die left and right from measles.
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bookie









  


Post  Thu, Nov 08 2018, 12:26 pm
amother wrote:
Do you or anyone else on here personally know someone who died or was damaged by the measles whether now or in the 60's?
Of course it makes a difference if the kid who died was Down Syndrome and also had a liver problem and staph infection and measles! You gotta be stupid to think otherwise. That baby could have died from any other virus too in such a compromised position. The kid was brought in to the hospital already dead! Kids don't die from one minute to the next. There was neglect involved here too. Let's be honest here. One of 1300 when that one had previous health conditions is not a very scary percentage at all! People don't die left and right from measles.


Yes and they both were healthy individuals beforehand.
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Mevater









  


Post  Thu, Nov 08 2018, 12:26 pm
ra_mom wrote:
Probably won't happen as long as R’ Malkiel Kotler and others support and endorse not vaccinating.


What is the reason R' Kotler supports the option of not vaccinating?

Clearly many more children have gotten ill who havent been vaccinated than gotten ill from being vaccinated.


Last edited by Mevater on Thu, Nov 08 2018, 12:31 pm; edited 2 times in total
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amother




Jetblack


Post  Thu, Nov 08 2018, 12:28 pm
bookie wrote:
Yes and they both were healthy individuals beforehand.

I'm genuinely interested in hearing when this was and what happened to them. Can you share?
I'm
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mommyla









  


Post  Thu, Nov 08 2018, 12:33 pm
amother wrote:
Do you or anyone else on here personally know someone who died or was damaged by the measles whether now or in the 60's?


I do. And a few people who came close. And I'm sure I'm not the only one.
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thunderstorm









  


Post  Thu, Nov 08 2018, 12:33 pm
amother wrote:
Do you or anyone else on here personally know someone who died or was damaged by the measles whether now or in the 60's?
Of course it makes a difference if the kid who died was Down Syndrome and also had a liver problem and staph infection and measles! You gotta be stupid to think otherwise. That baby could have died from any other virus too in such a compromised position. The kid was brought in to the hospital already dead! Kids don't die from one minute to the next. There was neglect involved here too. Let's be honest here. One of 1300 when that one had previous health conditions is not a very scary percentage at all! People don't die left and right from measles.

Yes. My mother just told me that she was five when she had the measles. Her cousin was 20 at that time and also came down with the measles at the same time. My mother said she idolized that cousin. Well , that cousin was a healthy 20 year old and she died from the measles.
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watergirl









  


Post  Thu, Nov 08 2018, 12:40 pm
amother wrote:
Do you or anyone else on here personally know someone who died or was damaged by the measles whether now or in the 60's?
Of course it makes a difference if the kid who died was Down Syndrome and also had a liver problem and staph infection and measles! You gotta be stupid to think otherwise. That baby could have died from any other virus too in such a compromised position. The kid was brought in to the hospital already dead! Kids don't die from one minute to the next. There was neglect involved here too. Let's be honest here. One of 1300 when that one had previous health conditions is not a very scary percentage at all! People don't die left and right from measles.

Thanks for making my point for me.

These people wont care about a letter.
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ra_mom









  


Post  Thu, Nov 08 2018, 12:40 pm
Mevater wrote:
What is the reason R' Kotler supports the option of not vaccinating?

Clearly many more children have gotten ill who havent been vaccinated than gotten ill from being vaccinated.

Do you honestly believe that there is logical reasoning involved?
It comes from his wife and he supports it.
I read about a whole coalition with R’ Malkiel Kotler, R’ Shmuel Meir Katz and R’ Refael Szmerla.
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ra_mom









  


Post  Thu, Nov 08 2018, 12:41 pm
amother wrote:
Do you or anyone else on here personally know someone who died or was damaged by the measles whether now or in the 60's?
Of course it makes a difference if the kid who died was Down Syndrome and also had a liver problem and staph infection and measles! You gotta be stupid to think otherwise. That baby could have died from any other virus too in such a compromised position. The kid was brought in to the hospital already dead! Kids don't die from one minute to the next. There was neglect involved here too. Let's be honest here. One of 1300 when that one had previous health conditions is not a very scary percentage at all! People don't die left and right from measles.

Yes. An 18 month old baby. Wasn't now.
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esuss









  


Post  Thu, Nov 08 2018, 12:45 pm
Anyone growing up before they started vaccines knew family and or friends who died or became impaired because of the measles. they were all scared of it knowing how dangerous it could be.
B"h there was only one death from the current outbreak but how many of the others will be affected for life by the complications they may have. Why put ourselves and our children at risk for this?!
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amother




Lemon


Post  Thu, Nov 08 2018, 12:48 pm
ra_mom wrote:
Do you honestly believe that there is logical reasoning involved?
It comes from his wife and he supports it.
I read about a whole coalition with R’ Malkiel Kotler, R’ Shmuel Meir Katz and R’ Refael Szmerla.


Do you think it's fair to post this on a forum that he cannot defend himself in?
I do vax.
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watergirl









  


Post  Thu, Nov 08 2018, 12:48 pm
amother wrote:
Do you or anyone else on here personally know someone who died or was damaged by the measles whether now or in the 60's?
Of course it makes a difference if the kid who died was Down Syndrome and also had a liver problem and staph infection and measles! You gotta be stupid to think otherwise. That baby could have died from any other virus too in such a compromised position. The kid was brought in to the hospital already dead! Kids don't die from one minute to the next. There was neglect involved here too. Let's be honest here. One of 1300 when that one had previous health conditions is not a very scary percentage at all! People don't die left and right from measles.


And I cant let this go - re: the bold - a person is not Down Syndrome. The child was not Down Syndrome. The child was a person who had Down Syndrome. Semantics matter. This child was a precious neshama, a lofty soul who was a person with feelings, intelligence, and personality. We put the person before the diagnosis.

If someone gave you a loaded gun and told you to put it against your head and said that the gun has 1300 chambers and only 1 has a bullet, would you take that risk?

What percentage do you need to make it scary or real?
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gamzehyaavor









  


Post  Thu, Nov 08 2018, 12:49 pm
amother wrote:
Do you or anyone else on here personally know someone who died or was damaged by the measles whether now or in the 60's?
Of course it makes a difference if the kid who died was Down Syndrome and also had a liver problem and staph infection and measles! You gotta be stupid to think otherwise. That baby could have died from any other virus too in such a compromised position. The kid was brought in to the hospital already dead! Kids don't die from one minute to the next. There was neglect involved here too. Let's be honest here. One of 1300 when that one had previous health conditions is not a very scary percentage at all! People don't die left and right from measles.

Well, one of the reasons you should vaccinate is to protect the vulnerable, those in compromised positions, those that their body can't fight off such a silly measles virus Rolling Eyes
edited for spelling
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amother




Orange


Post  Thu, Nov 08 2018, 12:52 pm
Mevater wrote:


Clearly many more children have gotten ill who havent been vaccinated than gotten ill from being vaccinated.


Intentionally contracted cases to prevent contracting as adults.
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southernbubby









  


Post  Thu, Nov 08 2018, 12:59 pm
I was born in 1955 and the MMR became widely available in 1968 when I was 13. By that time I had already experienced rubella and mumps but I really didn't know anyone who had had the measles. My parents never even spoke of it and my grandparents remember the worry that measles could cause blindness and the treatment then was to shield the eyes from light.

The World Health Organization (WHO) states that children who are given two doses of Vitamin A, 24 hours apart have a 50% decreased death rate and it protects against blindness. Apparently the measles virus depletes the Vitamin A in the body which is probably one of the reasons that malnourished children are more likely to die of measles. The WHO says that between 3% and 6% of children in developing countries, countries at war or children living in DP camps, dies from contracting measles.

Apparently the reason that we see few fatalities in developed countries is that children are better nourished, get IV hydration, and Vitamin A.
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southernbubby









  


Post  Thu, Nov 08 2018, 1:01 pm
gamzehyaavor wrote:
Well, one of the reasons you should vaccinate is to protect the vulnerable, those in compromised positions, those that their body can't fight off such a silly measles virus Rolling Eyes
edited for spelling



If someone was skeptical about the safety of the MMR vaccine, it would take an extreme act of altruism to get them to give it for the benefit of society. That has been expressed here many times; that parents feel that their primary responsibility is to their own kids.
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