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Non Vaccinating = "Murderer"
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gamzehyaavor









  


Post  Thu, Nov 08 2018, 1:06 pm
southernbubby wrote:
If someone was skeptical about the safety of the MMR vaccine, it would take an extreme act of altruism to get them to give it for the benefit of society. That has been expressed here many times; that parents feel that their primary responsibility is to their own kids.

True.
I look at it from a different perspective, so I'm a little more passionate Wink.
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Mevater









  


Post  Thu, Nov 08 2018, 1:06 pm
It is most disturbing that people are trying to make this happen in Lakewood, New Jersey, of all places, because as was mentioned at the levaya of Rebbitzen Rishel Kotler aleha hashalom by one of the Maspidim – she was at the forefront of helping people who could not afford it – get vaccinated!

https://www.theyeshivaworld.co.....-risk.html

Why the change of position on Vaccines?
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amother




Apricot


Post  Thu, Nov 08 2018, 1:32 pm
I think that the Rav mentioned on this forum as being against vaccinations, is being mixed up with someone else.
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ra_mom









  


Post  Thu, Nov 08 2018, 1:49 pm
amother wrote:
I think that the Rav mentioned on this forum as being against vaccinations, is being mixed up with someone else.

Then I hope this is wrong.
http://www.rationalistjudaism......d.html?m=1
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WastingTime









  


Post  Thu, Nov 08 2018, 1:58 pm
amother wrote:
Do you or anyone else on here personally know someone who died or was damaged by the measles whether now or in the 60's?
Of course it makes a difference if the kid who died was Down Syndrome and also had a liver problem and staph infection and measles! You gotta be stupid to think otherwise. That baby could have died from any other virus too in such a compromised position. The kid was brought in to the hospital already dead! Kids don't die from one minute to the next. There was neglect involved here too. Let's be honest here. One of 1300 when that one had previous health conditions is not a very scary percentage at all! People don't die left and right from measles.


Neglect was that no one was vaccinated and the parents gave it to their baby. If the child was so vulnerable all the more reason to vaccinate.
But I know you won't be convinced even if 20 babies died. Measles is no worse than a cold, right?
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nchr









  


Post  Thu, Nov 08 2018, 2:06 pm
amother wrote:
I'm genuinely interested in hearing when this was and what happened to them. Can you share?
I'm


My great aunt was left almost entirely deaf from the measles. She had to have emergency surgery and BH her hearing was saved. Her father was an MD as well so no negligence there.

Roald Dahl's daughter died at the age of 7 from measles encephalitis before there was a vaccine. She was already getting better, but suddenly from one day to the next ended up entirely impaired and passed on.
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WastingTime









  


Post  Thu, Nov 08 2018, 2:06 pm
amother wrote:
Do you or anyone else on here personally know someone who died or was damaged by the measles whether now or in the 60's?
Of course it makes a difference if the kid who died was Down Syndrome and also had a liver problem and staph infection and measles! You gotta be stupid to think otherwise. That baby could have died from any other virus too in such a compromised position. The kid was brought in to the hospital already dead! Kids don't die from one minute to the next. There was neglect involved here too. Let's be honest here. One of 1300 when that one had previous health conditions is not a very scary percentage at all! People don't die left and right from measles.



Ever hear of Charlie and the chocolate factory?

The author Roald Dahl lost his perfectly healthy daughter to measles:

https://io9.gizmodo.com/read-r.....1682995322

Its true death rates are 1 in 1000 but there are many more complications like pneumonia which is 1/20 , for an older child or healthy adult it's not usually a big deal but a newborn, elderly etc...scary.
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Mevater









  


Post  Thu, Nov 08 2018, 2:09 pm
It is most disturbing that people are trying to make this happen in Lakewood, New Jersey, of all places, because as was mentioned at the levaya of Rebbitzen Rishel Kotler aleha hashalom by one of the Maspidim – she was at the forefront of helping people who could not afford it – get vaccinated!

https://www.theyeshivaworld.co.....-risk.html

Why the change of position on Vaccines?
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ra_mom









  


Post  Thu, Nov 08 2018, 2:25 pm
Mevater wrote:
It is most disturbing that people are trying to make this happen in Lakewood, New Jersey, of all places, because as was mentioned at the levaya of Rebbitzen Rishel Kotler aleha hashalom by one of the Maspidim – she was at the forefront of helping people who could not afford it – get vaccinated!

https://www.theyeshivaworld.co.....-risk.html

Why the change of position on Vaccines?

Since your reposting I guess you didn't see this so I'll repost for you.

amother wrote:
I think that the Rav mentioned on this forum as being against vaccinations, is being mixed up with someone else.

Then I hope this is wrong.
http://www.rationalistjudaism......d.html?m=1
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amother




Natural


Post  Thu, Nov 08 2018, 2:46 pm
Sometimes people can get measles, heal, and then years later or right away come out with subacute sclerosing panencephalitis which is often fatal and caused by measles.
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amother




Jetblack


Post  Thu, Nov 08 2018, 2:57 pm
gamzehyaavor wrote:
Well, one of the reasons you should vaccinate is to protect the vulnerable, those in compromised positions, those that their body can't fight off such a silly measles virus Rolling Eyes
edited for spelling

I read this as measly virus. lol
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amother




Jetblack


Post  Thu, Nov 08 2018, 2:59 pm
WastingTime wrote:
Neglect was that no one was vaccinated and the parents gave it to their baby. If the child was so vulnerable all the more reason to vaccinate.
But I know you won't be convinced even if 20 babies died. Measles is no worse than a cold, right?

very cute. That's not what I meant. Neglect was not making use of medical treatment when the kid was ill. waiting till the child was dead to call hatzala.
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WastingTime









  


Post  Thu, Nov 08 2018, 3:49 pm
amother wrote:
very cute. That's not what I meant. Neglect was not making use of medical treatment when the kid was ill. waiting till the child was dead to call hatzala.


Jetblack there's actually nothing much to be done to treat measles. What medical treatment were you referring to?

And if doctors are wrong abt vaccinating why are they suddenly reliable when there's an emergency??
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southernbubby









  


Post  Thu, Nov 08 2018, 3:51 pm
WastingTime wrote:
Jetblack there's actually nothing much to be done to treat measles. What medical treatment were you referring to?

And if doctors are wrong abt vaccinating why are they suddenly reliable when there's an emergency??


Measles is treated with Vitamin A and fluids, according to the World Health Organization.
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Chayalle









  


Post  Thu, Nov 08 2018, 4:06 pm
ra_mom wrote:
Then I hope this is wrong.
http://www.rationalistjudaism......d.html?m=1


It's not clear, from this link, whether the Lakewood Rabbanim mentioned are actually against vaccines, or if they are simply trying to help those who are, get their kids into school.
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WastingTime









  


Post  Thu, Nov 08 2018, 4:10 pm
southernbubby wrote:
Measles is treated with Vitamin A and fluids, according to the World Health Organization.


Vitamin A is used in places where there's malnutrition and therefore a deficiency. It may help outcome. It is not a treatment, and certainly not in Israel or US.
And the WHO also recommends vaccinating...
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southernbubby









  


Post  Thu, Nov 08 2018, 4:15 pm
WastingTime wrote:
Vitamin A is used in places where there's malnutrition and therefore a deficiency. It may help outcome. It is not a treatment, and certainly not in Israel or US.
And the WHO also recommends vaccinating...



My understanding is that measles depletes the body of Vitamin A and it is not dependent on the nutritional status of the person. While it may be more of a consideration in developing countries it may be also a consideration in America and Israel:

Abstract
• Recent studies show that vitamin A levels decrease during measles and that vitamin A therapy can improve measles outcome in children in the developing world. Vitamin A levels of children with measles have not been studied in developed countries. We therefore measured vitamin A levels in 89 children with measles younger than 2 years and in a reference group in New York City, NY. Vitamin A levels in children with measles ranged from 0.42 to 3.0 μmol/L; 20 (22%) were low. Children with low levels were more likely to have fever at a temperature of 40°C or higher (68% vs 44%), to have fever for 7 days or more (54% vs 23%), and to be hospitalized (55% vs 30%). Children with low vitamin A levels had lower measles-specific antibody levels. No child in the reference group had a low vitamin A level. Our data show that many children younger than 2 years in New York City have low vitamin A levels when ill with measles, and that such children seem to have lower measles-specific antibody levels and increased morbidity. Clinicians may wish to consider vitamin A therapy for children younger than 2 years with severe measles. Additional studies of vitamin A in measles and other infectious diseases, and in vaccine efficacy trials, should be done.
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WastingTime









  


Post  Thu, Nov 08 2018, 4:27 pm
southernbubby wrote:
My understanding is that measles depletes the body of Vitamin A and it is not dependent on the nutritional status of the person. While it may be more of a consideration in developing countries it may be also a consideration in America and Israel:

Abstract
• Recent studies show that vitamin A levels decrease during measles and that vitamin A therapy can improve measles outcome in children in the developing world. Vitamin A levels of children with measles have not been studied in developed countries. We therefore measured vitamin A levels in 89 children with measles younger than 2 years and in a reference group in New York City, NY. Vitamin A levels in children with measles ranged from 0.42 to 3.0 μmol/L; 20 (22%) were low. Children with low levels were more likely to have fever at a temperature of 40°C or higher (68% vs 44%), to have fever for 7 days or more (54% vs 23%), and to be hospitalized (55% vs 30%). Children with low vitamin A levels had lower measles-specific antibody levels. No child in the reference group had a low vitamin A level. Our data show that many children younger than 2 years in New York City have low vitamin A levels when ill with measles, and that such children seem to have lower measles-specific antibody levels and increased morbidity. Clinicians may wish to consider vitamin A therapy for children younger than 2 years with severe measles. Additional studies of vitamin A in measles and other infectious diseases, and in vaccine efficacy trials, should be done.



Maybe more studies should be done but tachlis if you bring a baby with severe measles to hospital they're not pumping her with vit A and even they did its not a life saving measure.
So my comment still stands, the neglect was not vaccinating, especially once they had it themselves. Once she had it was too late


If we're copy pasting already:

Treatment
There's no specific treatment for an established measles infection. However, some measures can be taken to protect vulnerable individuals who have been exposed to the virus.

Post-exposure vaccination. Nonimmunized people, including infants, may be given the measles vaccination within 72 hours of exposure to the measles virus to provide protection against the disease. If measles still develops, the illness usually has milder symptoms and lasts for a shorter time.
Immune serum globulin. Pregnant women, infants and people with weakened immune systems who are exposed to the virus may receive an injection of proteins (antibodies) called immune serum globulin. When given within six days of exposure to the virus, these antibodies can prevent measles or make symptoms less severe.
Medications
Fever reducers. You or your child may also take over-the-counter medications such as acetaminophen (Tylenol, others), ibuprofen (Advil, Children's Motrin, others) or naproxen (Aleve) to help relieve the fever that accompanies measles.

Don't give aspirin to children or teenagers who have measles symptoms. Though aspirin is approved for use in children older than age 3, children and teenagers recovering from chickenpox or flu-like symptoms should never take aspirin. This is because aspirin has been linked to Reye's syndrome, a rare but potentially life-threatening condition, in such children.

Antibiotics. If a bacterial infection, such as pneumonia or an ear infection, develops while you or your child has measles, your doctor may prescribe an antibiotic.
Vitamin A. Children with low levels of vitamin A are more likely to have a more severe case of measles. Giving vitamin A may lessen the severity of the measles. It's generally given as a large dose of 200,000 international units (IU) for children older than a year


Last edited by WastingTime on Thu, Nov 08 2018, 4:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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andrea levy









  


Post  Thu, Nov 08 2018, 4:30 pm
My friend had polio. Don’t bother backing for it. It was nothing. After months in hospital and therapy at home, she survived. No big deal
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amother




Mistyrose


Post  Thu, Nov 08 2018, 4:41 pm
I'm just curious what all of you who are sharing stories about the measles would say to parents who share their stories of vaccine injury? What if they told you that correlation does not mean causation?
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