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amother




Mustard


Post  Thu, Nov 08 2018, 11:22 pm
I'm considering taking a course in computer programming.

It's a 10 month course (5 hours of classes a week + homework) that teaches Database, Windows, Web, and App programming. It's costs 10k. It teaches Syntax, Data Types, Variables, Logic, Control Flow, how to translate requirements into schema design ,SQL​, Languages, C#​, VB.net, Web​, HTML, JavaScript, CSS, Bootstrap, ASP.net, MVC, REST web services, JSON, XML, mobile apps, quality assurance, maintenance, and more.

Do you think it makes sense to pay 10k for a course that teaches all of the above?

I'm looking for some information from programmers-

Are you happy that you chose to work in this field? Why or why not?

How much do you currently earn, and how much did you earn at your first job?

And just in general, any information you can share about the field would be so helpful to me.

ETA- if you've had a positive experience with a course that is cheaper than 10k, please hook me up! Smile I'd like to have the teacher of the course help with finding a job, also...
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sandwitched




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Nov 08 2018, 11:37 pm
I am actually a web developer, but my husband is a computer programmer.
If you are mathematical, like working through problems, equations, then I would highly recommend it. The potential is great, and frankly, the future of the world is the internet, technology etc.

My husband doesn't have a degree, he learned in Satmar, so no major education there either. He did take a heimish course locally (did not cost much, don't remember exactly how much), and the rest he studied from programming books, research, and taking it one language at a time.

As of today (after 4 years) he earns around 130k/yr. He started out with 50k (almost sure about the numbers, I can double check if you'd like). he's had offers from other places twice, however his company matched the salary in order to keep him on. You probably won't become a millionaire, unless you come up with a brainstorm to develop but you'll most likely be able to eke out a proper living.

In other words, if you're good, then you're great! It's a pretty steady career choice.

In terms of spending 10k, my personal opinion is that you can learn it very easily on your own. I personally taught myself (web developing, slightly similar but less intense and more creative) with books, lynda videos, internet surfing, and lots of practice ( and never saying I can't do it, there are so so many resources out there!).

In short, great career choice, could be very interesting, brainy, and steady...
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ggdm




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Nov 09 2018, 9:07 am
I am a software developer. I love it, but it is a question of your talents. If you are structured, logical and like maths and formal thinking, it may be for you. But if I were you, I would find out if youu like it before paying so much money.

I think programming is a good area. At the moment there is a lot of demand for people, so I'd assume you can find a job easily. It is a new and dynamic field, there is less emphasis on titles and the "right" university. It is often easy to work from home. There are many more men than women, so being a woman is a plus when companies look to diversify their workforce. I have worked part-time in different settings and never had a problem. The is a lot of different things you can do, so you should be able to find something you like.

The contents of that cours do not sound bad. But five hours a week sounds not enough for all that content, so it may be too superficial. And I second sandwitched. You can learn a lot for free, on your own. I'd suggest coursera or a similar platform. Maybe an intro to data structures and a programming course (my favourite for a beginner is Python) and a SQL course. I can look for specific ones, if you like.

If you have more questions I am happy to answer, but I am not in the US, so salary etc questions are not for me.
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cat3




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Nov 09 2018, 9:11 am
Do you know what computer programmers make after around 10 years in the field?
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e1234




 
 
 


Post  Sat, Nov 10 2018, 11:47 am
I'm also a web developer and programmer (not in the US)

it's good for you if you are logically minded.

I agree that course sounds like it's putting too much in too little time

if you learn the basics and you catch on - then you can learn on your own
(in this field you have to always be ready to learn on your own - as things are constantly changing)
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amother




Lime


Post  Sat, Nov 10 2018, 9:17 pm
10k is alot. will they give you any kind of degree after that? will they garauntee job placement?

before you drop that much money on a course why not take a free course on coursera or code academy to see if it is something you can see yourself doing as a career.
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amother




Navy


Post  Sat, Nov 10 2018, 10:14 pm
I took a course for around that price and I think it was worth it. Have you spoken to people who took that exact course? Each one is different so I would suggest calling references/previous graduates.
The course I took helped me find a job as well bh.
I wish someone would have told me to try out a free course on Coursera/Lynda/Pluralsight first just to have an idea of what I was getting in to, but I love my job so I don't regret it at all!
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amother




Blonde


Post  Sun, Nov 11 2018, 1:11 am
I am a computer programmer. I love the field. I make a decent salary with great benefits but nothing major. I stopped getting major chances to move up because I now work from home (which for me is amazing - I have a large family now). If I was more ‘aggressive’ or in the office I know I’d be making more. Also I find web And app developers seem to make more then windows (what I do).
Sometimes it’s hard with deadlines. I sometimes have to work nights or up to candle lighting. Because I’m salaried I don’t get paid extra. It’s expected. But many jobs are like that. And sometimes I secretly love that thrill.

I belong to a tech group of frum women. Many have taken non degree courses like what you describe and they have jobs and know a ton. They are know a lot more modern technologies and have the tools to constantly grow. Most of them seem to work for frum local companies and they are making nice salaries. They speak about branching out to increase but I don’t know how hard it is to get a job
I’ve been working many years and at this point no one cares what my degree is. (I got it in one year through Thomas Edison)
There are plenty of coding boot camps and they claim great placement rates. I just don’t know if it is true.
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amother




Linen


Post  Sun, Nov 11 2018, 1:31 am
DH and I took a programming course at COPE. I think it was $10,000, but if qualified, you were able to pay little or nothing. I actually know married men that got paid to go to school. School was I think 9-3 with some homework.

We both got jobs as programmers. I left the field and was a SAHM for a while. I recently went back to work, in a related field. My past experience definitely helps me.

Regarding salary, it really depends where you work. DH works in a Heimish place for over 10 years. They don't pay well. People keep on leaving to other jobs or even different careers. His company doesn't seem to care.
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naturalmom5




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Nov 11 2018, 2:13 am
DEFINITELY DON'T SPEND A PENNY UNTIL YOU KNOW ITS FOR YOU

You can go to Grace Hopper and take a free pre-boot camp course. Its thorough enough to see if you have the abilities for this
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amother




Aquamarine


Post  Sun, Nov 11 2018, 8:33 am
cat3 wrote:
Do you know what computer programmers make after around 10 years in the field?


it depends alot on the type of programming you do, the hours you give, etc....

I'm a computer programmer in the financial industry with more than 10 years experience. I make about 80K annually (salaried).

If I would've accepted a managerial position and would be willing to travel and be more aggressive in my career, I would probably earn more.
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Chayalle




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Nov 11 2018, 8:36 am
amother wrote:
I am a computer programmer. I love the field. I make a decent salary with great benefits but nothing major. I stopped getting major chances to move up because I now work from home (which for me is amazing - I have a large family now). If I was more ‘aggressive’ or in the office I know I’d be making more. Also I find web And app developers seem to make more then windows (what I do).
Sometimes it’s hard with deadlines. I sometimes have to work nights or up to candle lighting. Because I’m salaried I don’t get paid extra. It’s expected. But many jobs are like that. And sometimes I secretly love that thrill.

I belong to a tech group of frum women. Many have taken non degree courses like what you describe and they have jobs and know a ton. They are know a lot more modern technologies and have the tools to constantly grow. Most of them seem to work for frum local companies and they are making nice salaries. They speak about branching out to increase but I don’t know how hard it is to get a job
I’ve been working many years and at this point no one cares what my degree is. (I got it in one year through Thomas Edison)
There are plenty of coding boot camps and they claim great placement rates. I just don’t know if it is true.


Wow I could have written this, down to my degree Smile.

And the thrill. Last week I worked on a production issue that was like finding a needle in a haystack. My whole family heard me exclaim with glee (!!!) when I found the issue that was causing a problem in an obscure area that seemed unrelated to the source.....hard to explain to anyone but a fellow computer programmer.
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amother




Lime


Post  Sun, Nov 11 2018, 12:03 pm
Chayalle wrote:
Wow I could have written this, down to my degree Smile.

And the thrill. Last week I worked on a production issue that was like finding a needle in a haystack. My whole family heard me exclaim with glee (!!!) when I found the issue that was causing a problem in an obscure area that seemed unrelated to the source.....hard to explain to anyone but a fellow computer programmer.


lol one thing to keep in mind if you go into the field - your dh's eyes will probably glaze over if you try to tel him about your day.
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amother




Blonde


Post  Sun, Nov 11 2018, 12:15 pm
amother wrote:
lol one thing to keep in mind if you go into the field - your dh's eyes will probably glaze over if you try to tel him about your day.


I don’t tell DH exactly my coding. But I will discuss my day like I’m stuck and it’s frustrating and he can commiserate and understand when I get success.

Sometimes if there is a cool marketing video for something I was involved in I share with my family. I think it helps my kids get excited and an understanding about what I do.

I remember when we were engaged and I was doing embedded programming for military projects. I thought it was very cool and fascinating. Someone asked DH what I do and he said “something with computers”. I was totally insulted.
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ggdm




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Nov 11 2018, 11:15 pm
Wow so many programmers here on imamother!
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amother




Navy


Post  Sun, Nov 11 2018, 11:17 pm
amother wrote:

I belong to a tech group of frum women. Many have taken non degree courses like what you describe and they have jobs and know a ton. They are know a lot more modern technologies and have the tools to constantly grow. Most of them seem to work for frum local companies and they are making nice salaries. They speak about branching out to increase but I don’t know how hard it is to get a job
I’ve been working many years and at this point no one cares what my degree is. (I got it in one year through Thomas Edison)
There are plenty of coding boot camps and they claim great placement rates. I just don’t know if it is true.


So do I Wink it's probably the same one lol, I highly doubt there are two groups for frum programmers.
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smileforamile




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Nov 11 2018, 11:19 pm
So women on Ima: I think I've posted about this here before. My dh wants to become a programmer. He knows Java and some VBA. He's thinking of going to college for a computer science degree. However, I see lots of people recommending boot camps. Can you really get a job without a degree? Or do you need to be really good on your own to do that?
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amother




Navy


Post  Sun, Nov 11 2018, 11:25 pm
smileforamile wrote:
So women on Ima: I think I've posted about this here before. My dh wants to become a programmer. He knows Java and some VBA. He's thinking of going to college for a computer science degree. However, I see lots of people recommending boot camps. Can you really get a job without a degree? Or do you need to be really good on your own to do that?


Sorry, I derailed this thread. From what you've written - it sounds like your husband has a knack for it and taught himself a decent amount. I would try to find an internship if possible at this point (unpaid is still better than shelling out money for more schooling, and he'll learn way more on the job) and if not maybe try a bootcamp as it seems that he is self motivated enough to make that work.
The only reason I personally would want a degree is just in case I wanted to get an entry level position in a bank or if I thought I might eventually want to change fields and my credits might be useful then. Otherwise after 3-5 years in the field, whether you have a degree or not makes absolutely no difference.

Disclaimer: this is all based on my personal experience and what I've heard from others in the field firsthand. I do not claim to have done extensive research on the topic Wink
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ggdm




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Nov 12 2018, 7:03 am
smileforamile wrote:
So women on Ima: I think I've posted about this here before. My dh wants to become a programmer. He knows Java and some VBA. He's thinking of going to college for a computer science degree. However, I see lots of people recommending boot camps. Can you really get a job without a degree? Or do you need to be really good on your own to do that?

Disclaimer: I'm not in the US, things may be different there, but from my experience in big international companies, they are not so much.

I'd say software is one of the fields where knowledge matters more than the degree. I know quite some people who now work in programming, but come from different fields or have no degree. So in terms of the work he could do, it probably doesn't matter so much. Assuming he knows his stuff, of course.

I can see three situations where a degree matters: Starting salary (entry level, without job experience) - they will of course try to pay less. Getting a job where there is a lot of competition - HR will pre-sort by degree. And maybe advancing to a leading or specialist position in a big and more traditional company where HR has rules about that sort of thing.
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imasinger




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Nov 12 2018, 7:11 am
I'm married to a software engineer, and I'm loving this thread!

Also looking for what advice programmers would give to an almost HS grad girl who enjoys coding and is probably not the seminary type.
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