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smileforamile




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Nov 12 2018, 8:08 am
ggdm wrote:
Disclaimer: I'm not in the US, things may be different there, but from my experience in big international companies, they are not so much.

I'd say software is one of the fields where knowledge matters more than the degree. I know quite some people who now work in programming, but come from different fields or have no degree. So in terms of the work he could do, it probably doesn't matter so much. Assuming he knows his stuff, of course.

I can see three situations where a degree matters: Starting salary (entry level, without job experience) - they will of course try to pay less. Getting a job where there is a lot of competition - HR will pre-sort by degree. And maybe advancing to a leading or specialist position in a big and more traditional company where HR has rules about that sort of thing.


I just wonder if he could learn it all on his own, or if he's going to run into situations where there are jobs available that require knowledge he doesn't have. Also, he tried finding an unpaid internship in tech, and he couldn't find anything. Where do you find such internships that will take people not going for a tech degree?

Also, he would potentially be interested in growing in the field. That's where the degree may be necessary just for the credentials.
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amother




Amethyst


Post  Mon, Nov 12 2018, 9:28 am
smileforamile wrote:
So women on Ima: I think I've posted about this here before. My dh wants to become a programmer. He knows Java and some VBA. He's thinking of going to college for a computer science degree. However, I see lots of people recommending boot camps. Can you really get a job without a degree? Or do you need to be really good on your own to do that?

Dh taught himself programming. He did what others suggested and got an internship first. Now bH years later he is making the same as those who have degrees.
The challenge is finding the first jobs. That was not an easy process and she hated his internship. He was able to stick it out but I do think his friends with degrees had an easier time with that.
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amother




Blonde


Post  Mon, Nov 12 2018, 10:23 am
smileforamile wrote:
I just wonder if he could learn it all on his own, or if he's going to run into situations where there are jobs available that require knowledge he doesn't have. Also, he tried finding an unpaid internship in tech, and he couldn't find anything. Where do you find such internships that will take people not going for a tech degree?

Also, he would potentially be interested in growing in the field. That's where the degree may be necessary just for the credentials.


I wouldn’t get a degree to know everything. Programming is the type of thing we’re you get it and you constantly learn. I’m stuck In ‘Dated’ technology and still have to keep on learning constantly. It’s really part of the field.

A degree really does help especially for a first job or just not having to explain in an interview. At this point no one cares that I have a Thomas Edison degree but it helps that they just see it. Also the interns hired in my company are all on school for their degrees. I think the boot camps help you find jobs and the price may be worth it just for that. If you are self taught I think that first job would just be very hard. You can try within frum companies first because they are much more understanding of that setup.

10k for knowledge that can earn you 50k your first job is totally worth it.
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ggdm




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Nov 12 2018, 11:41 am
smileforamile wrote:
I just wonder if he could learn it all on his own, or if he's going to run into situations where there are jobs available that require knowledge he doesn't have. Also, he tried finding an unpaid internship in tech, and he couldn't find anything. Where do you find such internships that will take people not going for a tech degree?

Also, he would potentially be interested in growing in the field. That's where the degree may be necessary just for the credentials.

He will most definitely run into situations where he lacks knowledge. But this happens to everybody, even with a degree. There are constantly new technologies, new frameworks, new trends. Any programmer needs to be prepared to learn more always.

What he should get is a solid understanding of the basic concepts. This can be done by a degree, but also alone with online courses. Without a bit of theory in basic logic, data structures and software architecture, it will be really hard.

I am not sure how to go about internships. Maybe he can work on something that he can bring as proof of his knowledge? Some freelance project or an open source software?
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Chayalle




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Nov 12 2018, 12:44 pm
smileforamile wrote:
I just wonder if he could learn it all on his own, or if he's going to run into situations where there are jobs available that require knowledge he doesn't have. Also, he tried finding an unpaid internship in tech, and he couldn't find anything. Where do you find such internships that will take people not going for a tech degree?

Also, he would potentially be interested in growing in the field. That's where the degree may be necessary just for the credentials.


I have a degree in computer sciences, and I still ran into areas where there was knowledge I had to brush up on. Computers is an area that is ever growing, expanding, changing. I've attended company trainings, learned stuff on the job, etc...
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smileforamile




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Nov 12 2018, 1:31 pm
Chayalle wrote:
I have a degree in computer sciences, and I still ran into areas where there was knowledge I had to brush up on. Computers is an area that is ever growing, expanding, changing. I've attended company trainings, learned stuff on the job, etc...


I get that, but if you don't have enough background, this will happen frequently, no?
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amother




Mustard


Post  Mon, Nov 12 2018, 7:20 pm
Thank you all for your answers! I'm finding them really helpful.

Question- I'm not a very detail oriented person. Not very observant. Would this disqualify me from being a good computer programmer?
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Chayalle




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Nov 12 2018, 7:48 pm
amother wrote:
Thank you all for your answers! I'm finding them really helpful.

Question- I'm not a very detail oriented person. Not very observant. Would this disqualify me from being a good computer programmer?


Depends what you mean by being detail-oriented.

In my line of work, one missed period (as in - .) can mean a ton of hours of aggravation.
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Chayalle




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Nov 12 2018, 7:49 pm
smileforamile wrote:
I get that, but if you don't have enough background, this will happen frequently, no?


Even with a ton of background, this can happen frequently.


It's a constantly moving, developing field. Everything changes every so often. You have to be on top of it.
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Hashem_Yaazor




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Nov 12 2018, 9:09 pm
The most important, fundamental thing is the logic -- that doesn't need a degree and it doesn't change with time. Frameworks and assembling packages and syntax variations among the languages and clean code etc can be practiced on a multitude of platforms and languages but will evolve over time, no matter what training you get.
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amother




Chocolate


Post  Mon, Nov 12 2018, 9:10 pm
DH and I are both computer programmers, with under grad and graduate degrees in computer science. I own my own consulting company and work very very part time and I make about 15K a year. DH works for a big company in NYC and makes around 300K a year. What you need to be successful in the industry and have big earning potential is the ability to keep up with technology and try to be the best at what you do. Having a good background of how and why things work makes you more flexible when it comes to learning new things.
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smileforamile




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Nov 12 2018, 11:02 pm
Hashem_Yaazor wrote:
The most important, fundamental thing is the logic -- that doesn't need a degree and it doesn't change with time. Frameworks and assembling packages and syntax variations among the languages and clean code etc can be practiced on a multitude of platforms and languages but will evolve over time, no matter what training you get.


Logic is dh's strongest suit, which is why he wants to become a programmer.

We just want to make sure that he has the proper background to be able to work in the field.
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amother




Green


Post  Fri, Jan 11 2019, 12:44 pm
I would definitely say to try some free online courses first to see if it appeals to you at all and then go for the course to get you that first job. Logical and detail oriented are the 2 most crucial personality types needed for a programmer/developer although there are web developers that are more into html and scripting client side that don't require as much detail. Can someone send me the information on the groups that have frum programmers - I would love to join.
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