Halachic Obligation to Vaccinate

amother

Black

Wed, Nov 14 2018, 12:05 pm

Mommyg8 wrote:

Many Rabbanim seem to forbid smoking. I'm guessing that the ones that smoke are not listening to that psak?

I think it is against halacha to eat food that is known to be clearly dangerous - but I don't really know ant food like that.

Soda, artificial sweeteners, msg, artificial color in food and so on are extremely bad for you if consumed often enough. It’s common knowledge that these are unhealthy. I don’t hear many Rabbis condemning it.

As an aside, more people die from obesity than from the measles in America. I can assure you of that.

amother

Wheat

Wed, Nov 14 2018, 12:08 pm

southernbubby wrote:

but, would the presence of more vaccinated people prevent an outbreak?

The point you clearly made by quoting all those official edicts is that the vaccine is way less effective than we previously thought. So go vaccinate yourself and your kids, but we can't tell you if it will work. You might still need another booster, and another, and another....

Furthermore, if the MMR is usually not indicated for children under 12 months (even though measles is highly contagious), why does the reason for that fly out the window during an outbreak? If the vaccine is safe for 6 month olds, give it to them always. If it isn't, it doesn't become safe during an outbreak? And what about newborns? What happens at that magic point between 5 months 29 days and 6 months? Is it safe or isn't it?

And why did my doctor (2 years ago) refuse to vaccinate my son with MMR while I was pregnant? He said now is not a good time and told me to come back after the baby. Something is fishy in Denmark.

Mommyg8

Wed, Nov 14 2018, 12:11 pm

amother wrote:

It's not bad for you in the sense that you could prove that someone who is eating all this stuff will drop dead, or even get sick. So there's no correlation.

amother

Wheat

Wed, Nov 14 2018, 12:13 pm

Mommyg8 wrote:

It's not bad for you in the sense that you could prove that someone who is eating all this stuff will drop dead, or even get sick. So there's no correlation.

What are you talking about???? Do some basic research!

keym

Wed, Nov 14 2018, 12:14 pm

amother wrote:

Soda, artificial sweeteners, msg, artificial color in food and so on are extremely bad for you if consumed often enough. Everybody agrees these are unhealthy.

Emphasis on [/b]if consumed often enough.[b]
Almost every doctor I've spoken to speaks about moderation with all this junk.
I just asked my husband. He quoted a Rambam that says that a person chiyuv in vnishmartem meod and Vchai vahem is to take the precautions and treatments that the rov- literally majority of the doctors in your generation reccomended. In his time it was bloodletting, leeches, and banking.
Now, many rabbanim will follow the Rambam's shitta and hold that AAP and WHO create the majority opinion of doctors in our generation. Which would mean halachicly we should vaccinate, halachicly we shouldn't smoke, halachicly we should eat junk in moderation, and everything else that the AAP and WHO holds.

amother

Black

Wed, Nov 14 2018, 12:15 pm

Mommyg8 wrote:

It's not bad for you in the sense that you could prove that someone who is eating all this stuff will drop dead, or even get sick. So there's no correlation.

You can’t guarentee someone that’s not vaccinated will get the measles. Nor can you prove someone who gets the measles will drop dead. The majority will not. That’s exactly what I’m trying to say. There is no immediate life/death situation here either. It would all fall under the same “preventative” catagory.

keym

Wed, Nov 14 2018, 12:18 pm

amother wrote:

My doctor said we don't give MMR to babies under 12 months because they don't have the ability to create "long term MMR immunity" until 12 months so there would be no benefit In giving the shot.
However during an outbreak, we are not caring about their long term immunity. We want them immune here and now in the next 3 months. And that is the purpose of the shot now.

Mommyg8

Wed, Nov 14 2018, 12:32 pm

amother wrote:

Measles is extremely contagious. That is why it is assumed that anyone over 60 is immune because they probably had the measles at some point. So it's pretty much a given that if we don't vaccinate, measles will come back.

And it's much, much, much more dangerous to get the measles than to eat junk food. A one in a thousand chance of death, r'l, and a much higher chance of permanent injury, cannot compare to the maybe, maybe you will get sick of you will eat too much junk food.

Mommyg8

Wed, Nov 14 2018, 12:34 pm

amother wrote:

What are you talking about???? Do some basic research!

What kind of basic research are you talking about???

Warning - I practically grew up on organic/vitamins/no sugar so tread carefully here!

WastingTime

Wed, Nov 14 2018, 12:44 pm

amother wrote:

Halacha is in the torah. Vaccines where invented centuries later. Rabbi's cant make up halachos.

Even if you add an unnecessary apostrophe to Rabbis you still remain a heretic (or we can give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're just completely ignorant of how halacha work)

WastingTime

Wed, Nov 14 2018, 12:45 pm

amother wrote:

Halacha is in the torah. Vaccines where invented centuries later. Rabbi's cant make up halachos.

Even if you add an unnecessary apostrophe to Rabbis you still remain a heretic (or we can give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're just completely ignorant of how halacha work)

amother

Black

Wed, Nov 14 2018, 1:29 pm

Mommyg8 wrote:

There is a high chance you will get sick if you smoke and eat a diet of junk food. If it’s against halacha, that should be spoken about and condemned more often.

Mommyg8

Wed, Nov 14 2018, 2:34 pm

amother wrote:

There is a high chance you will get sick if you smoke and eat a diet of junk food. If it’s against halacha, that should be spoken about and condemned more often.

No there's not necessarily a higher chance of getting sick if you eat more junk food. I would love to see one tiny smidgen of proof (gut feelings are not proof).

And AFAIK, some Rabbanim have assured smoking, as that's fairly provable.

amother

Black

Wed, Nov 14 2018, 3:32 pm

Mommyg8 wrote:

There is lots of proof that a poor diet causes many health issues. Look up or ask any doctor: How do I prevent diabetes ? How do I prevent obesity? How do I prevent heart disease? Of course maintaining a healthy diet is essential to preventing disease and sickness.

little neshamala

Wed, Nov 14 2018, 3:43 pm

amother wrote:

Oh come on this is getting ridiculous. (I am actually EXTREMELY health conscious, I try very hard to feed my family natural foods free of preservatives and food coloring etc and I am very aware of the rise in diabetes in children and am very outspoken on healthy eating)

But dont compare any of that with measles. Of course we all need to take care of ourselves!
But first of all if you dont feed your kids the right foods, my family wont be affected. If you dont vaccinate though, you put others at risk. And second of all, people who eat unhealthily are NOT facing the same stats that measles is. 1 in 500 people who get sick with measles DIE. Thats 2 kids in my childs school. 1 in 4 get hospitalized, and long lasting complications include deafness among other things.

How in the world can you even compare ..