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Forum -> Announcements & Mazel Tovs -> Tehillim Needed
Tehillim for Vaccine injured children
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ra_mom




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Nov 15 2018, 4:07 pm
Mamushka wrote:
Why do you post as amother?
Sorry, but there were Rabanim who were told what was going on in concetration camps and didn't believe it. Not everyone knows about the side effects. It doesn't mean that they don't excist.

So every childhood illness and disorder is now blamed on vaccines?
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Mamushka




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Nov 15 2018, 4:15 pm
mommyla wrote:
Thank you. Like I’ve said, I am as pro-vax as they come, but comparing to the Holocaust is absurd and just makes us pro-vaxxers sound like hysterical uneducated morons.

I did not call anyone an uneducated moron.
I believe that vaccinations are good for many people, but there are those who get seriously ill. Don't deny this fact. And seriously, if you would cv's see two of your kids having extreme reactions to a vaccination and turning from healthy kids to severly disabled ones, you would also stop vaccinating.
Those reactions are rear, but they excist. Don't compare such parents to anti vax parents.
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Mamushka




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Nov 15 2018, 4:17 pm
ra_mom wrote:
So every childhood illness and disorder is now blamed on vaccines?

That's not what I said.
This is about kids with server reactions to vaccinations. I do not and did not make a connection with all illnesses and disorders.
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amother
Chocolate


 

Post Thu, Nov 15 2018, 4:17 pm
ra_mom wrote:
So every childhood illness and disorder is now blamed on vaccines?

That is not how it works. Sometimes it works more like this.

Child develops an autoimmune disease, or starts developmentally regressing, or having some other symptom.

Mom takes child to doctors, who give medication to manage symptoms.

Mom does research, and finds practitioners who run blood tests for cause of presenting symptoms. Tests show toxicity levels that point to specific vaccines.

Practitioners prescribe detox regimen, and if and when the child "miraculously" recovers. The recovery Gets labeled as a medical miracle. These kids may end up needing ongoing extensive therapy to maintain "remission" state.

Some doctors see it, and agree that this is the case. Some say it's impossible, and totally discredit what just happened to their patients. Some pretend that they don't see, until moms present video footage of the before and after.

I discussed extensively with my doctor. She sees the injuries. Recommends some vaccines, and not others, and delays the vaccines. If you don't ask her, she follows the schedule, and doesn't discuss much of it with her patients.
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amother
Honeydew


 

Post Thu, Nov 15 2018, 5:23 pm
By denying vaccine reactions, you're more "frum" than the CDC.

They at least admitted that the original rotavirus vaccine (RotaShield) caused intussusception, that an H1N1 flu vaccine caused narcolepsy, and that a swine flu vaccine caused Guillian Barre Syndrome.

Are there more reactions that aren't noticed or not admitted to? Many would argue yes. They are rare, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

From the Hospital for Sick Children:
Quote:
When to see a doctor for vaccine side effects

Serious side effects from immunization are very rare, but they can happen. They may include:

serious allergic reaction or anaphylaxis, including itching, rash, swelling around the mouth and face, trouble breathing and low blood pressure
seizures
high fever
joint pain or stiffness
pneumonia
If your child is showing any of these serious side effects, or if you are worried, contact your child's doctor or go to the nearest Emergency Department.
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amother
Salmon


 

Post Thu, Nov 15 2018, 5:29 pm
This thread is ridiculous. Vaccines don't cause injuries. Children predispositioned to disorders, illnesses and impairments will often have them triggered by vaccines. If they wouldn't have been immunized then the predispositions would have just come out at a different time but they would still have the same disorders, illnesses and impairments and the parents would just have to look for someone else they can blame.
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amother
Indigo


 

Post Thu, Nov 15 2018, 5:35 pm
amother wrote:
Why do you think that autism is the only type of vaccine injury?


I actually don't believe that autism is at all caused by vaccines (this has never been proven). But I wasn't sure if some of the children on the list are now showing signs of autism, and that is why they have been included. And autism definitely has a genetic component, so...

For the record, I do 100% believe that some children have, nebach, been injured by vaccines. But I am 1000% pro vaccines. In a case where parents find out that their children have a condition that leads to bad reactions from vaccines, I would support their not vaccinating for medical reasons. That is, in fact, why herd immunity is necessary. But I believe that the fear mongering and others jumping on the antivax bandwagon is uncalled for, based on the dangers of vaccines vs. dangers of these preventable diseases. You have to go with the odds.
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amother
Crimson


 

Post Thu, Nov 15 2018, 6:04 pm
amother wrote:
I think it's more that the people who don't vaccinate due to injury have dealt with enough shame by now, that they have nothing to hide anymore.

They used to keep it on the down low because of the stigma, etc. Their world is upside down, and everyone is blaming them for not vaccinating their younger children. They don't have anything to lose by asking the public to daven for their hurt ochildren.

Many of the children on the list are vaccinated. Hence, vaccine injured.


So if they don't have anything to lose, have they all reported the injuries to the CDC / or up the healthcare chain? If all this is supposedly true, let the CDC have the numbers so they can properly evaluate the situation. Let the health dept examine study each case, so they reach a proper resolution about all these 'injuries'. If there are so many injuries in one group of people, isn't this something they need to be able to verify and act upon?

Claiming injuries without verification is no proof at all. Emotions come into play and its human nature to find an explanation for the unexplainable, or to seek a scapegoat to blame.
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amother
Honeydew


 

Post Thu, Nov 15 2018, 6:17 pm
amother wrote:
This thread is ridiculous. Vaccines don't cause injuries. Children predispositioned to disorders, illnesses and impairments will often have them triggered by vaccines. If they wouldn't have been immunized then the predispositions would have just come out at a different time but they would still have the same disorders, illnesses and impairments and the parents would just have to look for someone else they can blame.

The CDC admits that vaccines cause injuries.

Yes, some are more susceptible to injuries from vaccines than others. Obviously. If EVERYONE was injured by vaccines, nobody would take them. But the risks are still there, and denying them doesn't make them go away.

If someone is susceptible to OCD, then trauma might cause them to develop OCD. So molestation isn't at fault for depression, OCD, etc., because they were already predisposed to it, right? Obviously, the trigger IS still to blame.

(One of the reasons I originally stopped vaccinating was because when people are denying something so strongly, it often means they're trying to hide something.)

The odds still favor vaccination for most people. But with caution.
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amother
Crimson


 

Post Thu, Nov 15 2018, 6:22 pm
amother wrote:
The CDC admits that vaccines cause injuries.

Yes, some are more susceptible to injuries from vaccines than others. Obviously. If EVERYONE was injured by vaccines, nobody would take them. But the risks are still there, and denying them doesn't make them go away.

If someone is susceptible to OCD, then trauma might cause them to develop OCD. So molestation isn't at fault for depression, OCD, etc., because they were already predisposed to it, right? Obviously, the trigger IS still to blame.

(One of the reasons I originally stopped vaccinating was because when people are denying something so strongly, it often means they're trying to hide something.)

The odds still favor vaccination for most people. But with caution.


The CDC admits vaccines cause injuries, but in extremely small numbers. This list sounds preposterous in my opinion. If this would hold true in all groups of people then the number of injuries would be much much higher. So much higher, that most medical officials would be demanding a second look at vaccines. So either you're accusing the CDC of drastically manipulating the numbers, or this list includes people who believe their own version of events.
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Shuly




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Nov 15 2018, 6:25 pm
As a rule, I don't daven for tehillim names unless they are sent to me by someone who has firsthand information that as of this week, the person needs tefillos.

I've had too many emails asking me to daven for someone who was sick 5 years ago and the emails chain is still being passed around.

If you've spoken to the mothers of these kids this week, please let us know.
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Metukah




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Nov 15 2018, 6:52 pm
I'm sure we can get a list of names longer than yours op, of those currently sick with measles.

Even if the list was a true list of kids sick from vaccinations (which I strongly believe isn't the case), I guess it spans over a long period of time; these kids didn't all get sick the same month. Otoh, the longer list we can make of measles victims is all from the last 2 months.

Do the maths.

Maybe I should give you my name to daven for me. I'm pregnant, my neighbours kids attend a school that has had a measles breakout and it seems I am not immune. (I will get final results tomorrow).

Do me a favour, there is no logical, halachic, or even emotional excuse for putting others in danger.

Grow a pair.
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gande




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Nov 15 2018, 7:48 pm
My two sense:
If there would not be vaccinations the bd'e list would be that long and the tehilim list a lot longer! So it is irresponsible to scare people off from vaccinating by posting list of names that might not even be truly affected.

My daughter is developmentally delayed and I had a whole reasonable story that it happened because of her delivery. Even my pediatrician agreed that there was proof of negligence and I can sue the doctor. A while later we did whole exome sequencing and she was found to have a newly discovered genetic disorder.

I suggest all these parents of the children on the do whole exome genetic testing. There are so many new mutations that are being discovered. Many of them involve autism and seizures. They come out as the child is developing and getting shots every few months. But that doesn't mean that there is a correlation.
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amother
Navy


 

Post Thu, Nov 15 2018, 8:24 pm
amother wrote:
Maybe some genetic condition or allergy? Probably pretty rare.

Or maybe the family is genetically predisposed to autism...


When one child gets vaccine injured, a responsible and honest doctor SHOULD tell the parents not to vaccinate their other children. Often it is a genetic weakness that reacts to specific vaccines. But that doesn’t mean that weakness would manifest itself at all without the vaccine. Some parents actually believe their doctor after one child is injured, then the next child is injured and only the third child is proof that this is not a genetic disease, rather it may be a genetic predisposition to adverse effects of vaccines.

Please don’t mock people who have verified this. Their pain and their reality is real.
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amother
Mustard


 

Post Thu, Nov 15 2018, 8:41 pm
One of the big anti-vax in Brooklyn claims publicly that she has two kids that became mentally ill because of vaccines. truth is that its a genetic disease runs in her family and was confronted about it she said but what should I do? No one would want to be meshadich with us if they know the truth. So no this list has no Meaning to me at all only that these people are sick and need refauh sholamah and sorry I don't trust it's from vaccines
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amother
Indigo


 

Post Thu, Nov 15 2018, 9:07 pm
amother wrote:
When one child gets vaccine injured, a responsible and honest doctor SHOULD tell the parents not to vaccinate their other children. Often it is a genetic weakness that reacts to specific vaccines. But that doesn’t mean that weakness would manifest itself at all without the vaccine. Some parents actually believe their doctor after one child is injured, then the next child is injured and only the third child is proof that this is not a genetic disease, rather it may be a genetic predisposition to adverse effects of vaccines.

Please don’t mock people who have verified this. Their pain and their reality is real.


I agree with this, if there really is strong evidence that something about that child's genetic makeup led to a vaccine-related injury. Again, this is why herd immunity is important. If one family is discovered to have bad reactions to vaccines, then for them the risks of vaccines may be greater than the risks of the diseases. And that may be a valid reason not to vaccinate. But honestly, how many antivaxxers have this kind of evidence? And how many get carried up in the "vaccines are dangerous" frenzy without any reason to believe their children will be these rare cases? Because for most children, the odds of being injured by the diseases are much greater than the odds of being injured by vaccines. Those are the widely documented facts.

I must say, I truly feel for every parent whose child was harmed, either by the measles or by vaccines themselves. But, according to R' Elyashiv ztz"l, one must do whatever is considered the best option according to the medical knowledge of the times. Our histadlus is to do what's considered normal. So I'm going with the 99.9% of doctors who say to vaccinate.
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amother
Khaki


 

Post Thu, Nov 15 2018, 9:20 pm
I think all your pro vaxxers, are being unreal with thinking there are no side effects to vaccinations. I myself know many people who have had very bad reactions to vaccinations. personally I did vaccinate my kids now against measles because I was forced to but don't think vaccines are perfect. when one of your kids chas vshalom dies or becomes really sick directly after getting the vaccine you'll know the other side. I don't wish on anyone what people I know went through because of a safe quote on quote vaccine. any normal person knows that vaccines are not perfect I had four doctors tell me that yes they are pro-vaccination, and we should vaccinate our kids, however all four of them told me there are lots of side effects and you have to weigh the pros and cons. a doctor today told me yes they're not perfect however in this situation you probably should do it. again I hope you never go through what other families have gone through because of a safe quote-unquote shot. the extreme hatred and anger you have towards people who don't vaccinate is abominable. There's obviously something mentally wrong with lots of people in this world.
personally I don't care vaccinate don't vaccinate I couldn't care less what you do so why the heck do you care what I do...
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BHyomyom




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Nov 15 2018, 9:26 pm
Even if there are vaccine injuries, the rates of death, encephalitis, irreversible blindness, sterility, brain damage, and other serious consequences resulting from these diseases we vaccinate against is profound. Life decisions are about weighing the risks and benefits. Penicillin has risk of death on its side effect list. But if you have pneumonia, you take the life saving drug despite the rare side effects. Not vaccinating because of the rarity of the diseases is relying on herd immunity. The problem is, as we are seeing now, herd immunity only works if the herd is immunized. With the large segments of the population not vaccinating, you have to seriously look at the consequences of these deadly diseases. The diseases would decimate entire villages prior to the developments of vaccines. Many of these case reports of children becoming developmentally challenged are described by lay people without medical training. The case needs to be reviewed and scrutinized by medical professionals and experts so that inaccurate causal relationships aren’t drawn. I have seen such cases reported by the vaccine cautious community and many of them had critical details omitted unknowingly that could be medically explained (unrelated to the vaccine) by an expert. And even if there are cases of autism or such conditions linked sporadically to vaccines (although it has been medically debunked in large clinical studies), one has to weigh the rates and risks of death from these diseases we are choosing not to vaccinate against.
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amother
Babyblue


 

Post Thu, Nov 15 2018, 10:45 pm
amother wrote:
This sounds wayyyy dodgy to me. There is NO WAY rabbonim would be mandating vaccinations if there was any true evidence they cause damage. It is very common for parents of ill children to react in grief by imagining that vaccinations caused something when actually maybe the child already was going to get ill anyway/had genetic predisposition etc. It helps to deal with the feelings of anger and guilt but it doesn't mean it's real.


Wow, are you for real? So insensitive! And naive.
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amother
Babyblue


 

Post Thu, Nov 15 2018, 10:48 pm
amother wrote:
I wish you didn't post this kind of stuff also because it makes the (false) claim that vaccinations are dangerous. Every drug can have side effects but there is a dangerous cult of anti-vax going on at the moment that needs to be fought because these conspiracy theories put children's lives at risk.
Please don't send these sort of Tehillim lists without clarifying this. Anti-vax has no evidence behind it, it is just a mass movement of hysteria coming from a very dangerous source. Please be very careful not to give it any legitimacy.



Excuse me, but who is hysterical??? I don't see any prochoice people freaking out at all. To the contrary!
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