Fair camera policy?

amother

Mustard

Fri, Nov 16 2018, 2:48 pm

amother wrote:

Again, I appreciate these ideas, just trying to find one that resonates with my teaching style.

I'm really not a "leave my roll book open waiting to mark you down" type of teacher". Also does anyone else get what I mean by that I dont want to set up a system that makes me very busy with all this? I need to get past it, not start a whole bookkeeping system.

Even as I write all this, I know I'm just going to have to choose between being tough (not my style) or getting all busy with it (also not my style. Was hoping for some brilliant idea..

Ah, you're looking for an non-existent magical solution to an annoying life problem!
Aren't we all Very Happy

amother

Silver

Fri, Nov 16 2018, 3:24 pm

amother wrote:

I definitely get this. My pet peeves with so many discipline systems is that it requires the teacher's brain to be 50% engages with that at all times, meaning she cannot fully focus on the actual teaching.

amother

Blue

Fri, Nov 16 2018, 3:33 pm

amother wrote:

Thank you! I was starting to feel like a teenager. Rejecting everyone's seemingly reasonable ideas.

groisamomma

Fri, Nov 16 2018, 3:46 pm

I'm teaching for 16 years and I've never taken something from a student, and especially taken something and not returned it. That's outright stealing. My brain is also too frazzled to remember who owns what, or how many times they sinned, or even to mark things down and keep track. It disrupts my lesson and is so easily fixed. A simple, "please put it on my desk and grab it on the way out" or, since it's their classroom, say
"...and take it back when class is over." It always worked.

As per school policy, we are to confiscate phones that ring in class. Off and out of sight is fine but if it does ring I'm supposed to confiscate it. With rare exceptions, I would never touch their personal electronics, phones, cameras, etc. I tell them to turn it off quickly and the lesson moves on. I tell it to them as I pass their desk, but I'm not sure if you walk around. With their iPads, I can see every screen simultaneously, so if they're doing something unrelated on their school-issued iPads I just lock it remotely, using my own.

Reiterate the policy once more before class. Threatening is childish. I let them know every once in a while that besides for being a school rule, phones out distract me, and I lose my train of thought. If my sixth graders get it, then your high schoolers will.

groisamomma

Fri, Nov 16 2018, 4:02 pm

amother wrote:

Like I said groissamama, this is a newish thing that is popping up so I appreciate your input. This was the first thing I tried. A quick reminder to put it away and move on. It goes best with my style. But now that it's still happening, I was wondering if I should take it further......

I wouldn't do anything that puts any additional burden on me. "Please walk it to the office and pick it up on your way home." Or, "Please tell the office to put it in the safe until a parent redeems it."

amother

Plum

Sat, Nov 17 2018, 6:17 pm

I have a similar teaching style to you: My goal is to keep the girls interested and busy so that discipline is almost a non-issue. When a girl is busy with something else during class, I usually say "Put it away." If a few minutes later, I see that she's still busy with it, I resrve the right to take it. (I warned her, she didn't listen, it's now mine.) I don't say a word; I walk up and down the rows while I teach and while the girls do quiet work, so I'll just walk over to the girl, take it and walk on. But in such a situation where the girl is defying a school rule, I would take it without a warning.

As soon as class is over, I give the item to the principal, tell her what happened and let her deal with it. Sometimes the girl comes over to me, and asks back for her item and I tell her matter-of-factly, "I handed it over to Mrs. Principal. You can go get it from her." It leaves me free from disciplining but also not holding on to the kid's possession. No kid wants to go to the principal so you do it once, and they know to be careful during your class.

trixx

Sat, Nov 17 2018, 7:05 pm

When I had this with phones (school policy is that they had to hand it in and I didn't want to the one enforcing it) I would first try to pretend I didn't hear it ringing.

If I saw it though, I walked over and held out my hand silently til they handed it over (and they always did. Just stand quietly) and said "thank you, you can pick it up from the office at the end of the day" (and I would put the phone in the kids labeled slot in the office without actually telling anyone). In your case you can just have them take it from your desk after class.

Once I walked over to a student and turned the desk around, reached inside and took the phone. That was the only time I "caught" someone that bad and it's bc it was an ongoing problem. Otherwise it is very simple, nothing to remember, and very matter of fact and painless.

shluchamom

Sat, Nov 17 2018, 8:14 pm

I think the real goal is to break it down and asses. The issue is when they have a camera out its distracting to them and you. You aren't interested in really being caught up with the discipline aspect because it becomes petty, power struggle and takes up time and head space. I would begin next class and say girls I come to class to teach you come to learn we aren't here to waste each others time so I'm not doing the whole warnings and give and take system. New policy effective from this period is no cameras or electronic devices out (other than if you class calls for one). If I see it im just going to take it away no discussion or questions and it can be picked up from the office or principal because I'm not hired here to be an accountant im not wasting time keeping track of who's is who's etc. Thats the secretary/principals role. My role is to have a positive interactions while teaching you. Hopefully the bother of having to pick it up from someone else will stop it. This worked in my daughters elementary and high school classes. I think when the girls realize this isn't an 'out to get you' situation but just a functional technicality they'll start being careful. Good luck.
PS I don't think involving parents in high school discipline for such a trivial behavior is necessary. Treat them like adults and they'll live up to the expectation

amother

Blush

Sat, Nov 17 2018, 8:37 pm

Btw op, I just want to commend you on seeking solutions and not just confiscating forever because the rules permit. When I was 11 or 12, I had a game that beeped in class. I reached into my bag to shut it off and my teacher took it. I had used what was all my savings for that. I went to her after class and cried and asked her for it. It may seem silly now but it meant a lot to me then. She refused to give it back. She never returned it. To this day, in my head, she stole it.

It's over twenty years later. I obviously couldn't care less about the dumb game. She actually was an okay teacher. But whenever I think of her, I also think of her as a thief. I was raised in a very black-and-white "we don't lie, we don't cheat, we don't steal" kind of family. I always thought she violated halacha to steal my game and I never understood how someone so frum could do that. That was perhaps why I still haven't forgotten. Here was someone using their power to steal my game. I was taken aback when she said she would never return it. I thought she couldn't be serious but she was.

As I got older I knew people from her very frum family. I've heard about her peripherally. No matter how nice she is, I can't shake that association. She will always be that dishonest person who stole from me.

little neshamala

Sat, Nov 17 2018, 9:26 pm

OP another point to consider-whats your long term goal for these students? Im assuming one of them is for the girls to enjoy learning, and to be receptive to the words that come out of your mouth.
It may be "fine" to confiscate it permanently, I dont know but I do know one thing-any girl whose item gets permanently taken away will never listen to what comes out of your mouth. Youve lost her.
There are some good suggestions on this thread...

amother

Plum

Sun, Nov 18 2018, 12:31 am

shluchamom wrote:

As a high school teacher with 15 years experience, I would NOT do this. No talk, no speech, no long warnings. The whole "I'm here to teach you, not waste time... bla bla" will have them rolling their eyes.

If you feel like you need to say something, rule number one: say it at the end of class, in a casual manner, almost on the way out. And rule number two: short and to the point. "Girls, any electronics taken out during class will be confiscated and handed over to the principal."

imasoftov

Sun, Nov 18 2018, 4:53 am

It seems to me that a fair policy with regard to anything that is not part of the lesson should be that students should be told once to put it away and thrown out of class if they do not comply or take it out again. The only cause for taking something away from a student is if it's a danger to someone or they stole it from another student.

If there is some situation where something that is not dangerous needs to be confiscated that I haven't thought of, and it's not returned after class, short of it being along the lines of a gun or illegal drugs, which should be handed over to the police rather than kept by the teacher (even if the teacher wants them, don't get your drugs from your students, that's a blurring of boundaries), the teacher should instead find a more honest way to make a living, like running a pyramid scheme or pickpocketing.

In Bava Metzia 84a the fight between R Yochanan and Reish Lakish which eventually leads to both of their deaths begins when the former reminds the latter of his past as a robber, saying "A bandit knows about his banditry" and Reish Lakish responds, "What benefit did you provide me by bringing me close to Torah? There, among the bandits, they called me: Leader of the bandits, and here, too, they call me: Leader of the bandits" (I slightly disagree with that translation, I would remove the last three words, I understand him to be saying that the bandits use the same word for a leader that the yeshiva does)

R Yochanan does answer Reish Lakish, but it didn't help. But his answer is also relevant to my criticism of teacher/theives, "I provided benefit to you, as I brought you close to God, under the wings of the Divine Presence." If you steal from students you chase them away from the wings of the Shechina.