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Should teachers/school staff have to follow school rules?
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amother




Cyan


Post  Tue, Nov 20 2018, 9:44 am
This has been bugging me for a long time. Should the school staff need to follow school rules?
Let's take a chassidish school for example. The students need to wear beige tights, but many teachers don't. Theres a no driving rule for moms, but many teachers do drive. Teachers are supposed to be role models for the girls, should'nt they have to follow rules??
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Sebastian









  


Post  Tue, Nov 20 2018, 9:49 am
Tights and driving are a chassidish thing. I dont understand why a non chassidish teacher would need to follow such a rule
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Ruchel









  


Post  Tue, Nov 20 2018, 9:51 am
Rules for the kids, no way.
Rules for the moms, in the school.
Not minhagim
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thunderstorm









  


Post  Tue, Nov 20 2018, 9:53 am
I think that in the Viznitz school in Monsey the teachers need to wear a covered sheitel to school even if they don't wear one on a regular basis. I always found that to be the strangest thing ever.
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icedcoffee









  


Post  Tue, Nov 20 2018, 9:56 am
No, I don't think so. I'm a professional educator. I'm here to use my skills and degrees to help the kids succeed academically. What if I wore beige tights to school, but someone saw me on the weekend without? You would have to limit the pool of teachers to people who agree to live their entire private and public life this way.
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amother




Cyan


Post  Tue, Nov 20 2018, 9:57 am
Viznits monsey principal does not wear a covered sheitel, and many many teachers don't wear covered wigs either. They have many litvish/yeshivish teachers.
Satmer school in Willi the teachers have to wear collars and cover their wigs.
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amother




Taupe


Post  Tue, Nov 20 2018, 10:01 am
Some schools do require that. When I worked in a school in crown heights as a therapist from an outside agency, I was given a long list of rules I have to follow. Most of them I followed anyway, but one of them was that I was not allowed to wear a band fall, only a full sheital, which was kind of annoying because that meant I had to wear my Shabbos shaitel when I saw students in that school, rather than my weekday fall which I always wore to work.
I also was not allowed to use any of the materials I had that had non kosher animals on it, which I understand if they very much don't want their children exposed to such animals.
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keym









  


Post  Tue, Nov 20 2018, 10:03 am
I do think that the teachers IN SCHOOL can be mandated from the basic dress code standards that are expected from students at all times.
In my elementary school, teachers were required to cover collar bones, elbows, knees and wear skirts because that was the required student rules.
In my daughters school, teachers are required the same plus socks/rights in the school building. Married teachers must cover their hair.
Honestly, what the teacher does outside of school or school functions is her own business.
But to me restricting driving, insisting on tights color, or double head covering is extreme.
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amother




Natural


Post  Tue, Nov 20 2018, 10:04 am
I was offered a job as an administrator in a chassidish girls school. They wanted me to park away from the school and walk in. They didn't want me to use the school's parking lot. They asked for a shorter sheital and thicker tights.
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Iymnok









  


Post  Tue, Nov 20 2018, 10:38 am
I think it’s normal to have a dress code for faculty. Especially when you have members from different parts of society. I grew up with g*yishe teachers who dressed tznius in school. They occasionally would come in and change into a skirt if they had walked/jogged to school. It did not confuse us at all. Nor did the various head coverings.
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naturalmom5









  


Post  Tue, Nov 20 2018, 11:00 am
How far do you extend this. If it is a non-Jewish on non-frum secular studies teacher or secretary.

Are they required to keep Shabbos and Kasrus
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amother




Turquoise


Post  Tue, Nov 20 2018, 11:02 am
amother wrote:
Some schools do require that. When I worked in a school in crown heights as a therapist from an outside agency, I was given a long list of rules I have to follow. Most of them I followed anyway, but one of them was that I was not allowed to wear a band fall, only a full sheital, which was kind of annoying because that meant I had to wear my Shabbos shaitel when I saw students in that school, rather than my weekday fall which I always wore to work.
I also was not allowed to use any of the materials I had that had non kosher animals on it, which I understand if they very much don't want their children exposed to such animals.


Ha I know this school and I was going to give it as an example.
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cm









  


Post  Tue, Nov 20 2018, 11:02 am
Iymnok wrote:
I think it’s normal to have a dress code for faculty. Especially when you have members from different parts of society. I grew up with g*yishe teachers who dressed tznius in school. They occasionally would come in and change into a skirt if they had walked/jogged to school. It did not confuse us at all. Nor did the various head coverings.


This. Our schools have non-Jewish teachers who conform to the dress code at work. There are no rules enforced on the mothers outside of school, but they are requested to dress according to the dress code at school events. My family's standard of dress is somewhat different than the school's, but my child follows the rules while she is there, and I expect adults to do so as well. No one is confused.
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amother




Gray


Post  Tue, Nov 20 2018, 11:08 am
I can't speak to chassidish stuff specifically, but in the school I attended, all teachers were expected to follow school rules during the school day (so follow the dress code, etc). However, only limudei kodesh teachers were expected to live by school standards outside of school as well. I thought that was reasonable. Many of our limudei chol teachers were not frum or not Jewish, so they certainly were not expected to do anything differently outside of school, just be respectful in school. However, since limudei kodesh is about more than the academic learning--it's about the transmission of Torah values--they were expected to live their personal lives by the standards of the school.
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cm









  


Post  Tue, Nov 20 2018, 11:08 am
naturalmom5 wrote:
How far do you extend this. If it is a non-Jewish on non-frum secular studies teacher or secretary.

Are they required to keep Shabbos and Kasrus


No, faculty, staff, students and families should be free to do as they like outside of school time and property, within the law. It is reasonable, however, to expect Judaic-studies faculty to be personally observant.
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eema of 3









  


Post  Tue, Nov 20 2018, 11:17 am
Why are we only talking about dress? What about nail polish? What about phones? What about social media? If a school has a no nail polish rule for the girls, faculty and staff should not wear nail polish either. Not becasue they should be held to the same requirements, but becasue the best way to teach and reinforce is to model. The same with phones and social media. If the school has rules against such things, the teachers should follow the same rules. Phones should be away during class. Teachers should not be checking or posting on social media, at least not during the school day.
Non Jewish female teachers should at least have a minimum dress code, although they should not be expected to comply completely with the schools tznius dress code. At the same time though, if it is important to the school to have teachers reinforcing the rules, then they should only hire teachers who can do so. It’s not fair to hire a teacher who clearly wears long sheitels and nail polish, and THEN tell her she can’t dress that way.
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dankbar









  


Post  Tue, Nov 20 2018, 11:28 am
I remember during my hischool, my school changed over from letting lemudei chol teachers wear black tights to having to wear beige.

In satmar wmsbg all teachers are required to wear tichels on top of their sheitels even the preschool teachers. No matter what they normally wear. It's funny because nobody wear that way as an everyday dress, a full sheitel with kerchief on top of that. That way of dressing you only see in shul on shabbos.
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naturalmom5









  


Post  Tue, Nov 20 2018, 11:47 am
eema of 3 wrote:
Why are we only talking about dress? What about nail polish? What about phones? What about social media? If a school has a no nail polish rule for the girls, faculty and staff should not wear nail polish either. Not because they should be held to the same requirements, but because the best way to teach and reinforce is to model. The same with phones and social media. If the school has rules against such things, the teachers should follow the same rules. Phones should be away during class. Teachers should not be checking or posting on social media, at least not during the school day.
Non Jewish female teachers should at least have a minimum dress code, although they should not be expected to comply completely with the schools tznius dress code. At the same time though, if it is important to the school to have teachers reinforcing the rules, then they should only hire teachers who can do so. It’s not fair to hire a teacher who clearly wears long sheitels and nail polish, and THEN tell her she can’t dress that way.


This is still focusing on externals.... What about middos and bain adom l chavero.. Every SINGLE OTD girl I ever spoke to, told me very awful stories of "exemplary" behavior of her teachers and principals..
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spice









  


Post  Tue, Nov 20 2018, 12:28 pm
I think that teachers should follow the rules. Students might feel resentment towards following the rules if they see that their teachers are not following the rules. Especially in the younger stages when kids are developing.
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amother




Copper


Post  Tue, Nov 20 2018, 1:08 pm
I'm a therapist, and I used to treat children in their schools. I was asked sometimes to adhere to a certain dress code (wear a wig, not a hat or kerchief, no leggings, no long earrings, no sneakers, shorter wig). When I felt I could comply, I did. For some requests though, (it also made a difference to me how the request was made) I said no. I'm a very competent therapist and I do really good work. If they were too uncomfortable with my dress/hair covering to have me in their school, there was plenty of work elsewhere. Only once did I have a school tell me I should stop coming.
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