S/O against the rules to attack an ima?

Rappel

Tue, Nov 20 2018, 12:30 pm

I noticed on the "bnei brak child abuse" thread that several posters made nasty comments directed at Seas.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but: isn't it against forum rules to insult another Ima?

Did the rules change?

Link to the thread in question: https://www.imamother.com/foru.....50541

Last edited by Rappel on Tue, Nov 20 2018, 12:33 pm; edited 1 time in total

southernbubby

Tue, Nov 20 2018, 12:32 pm

Rappel wrote:

I noticed on the "bnei brak child abuse" thread that several posters made nasty comments directed at Seas.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but: isn't it against forum rules to make a direct verbal attack against another Ima?

Leave aside whether the comments on either side were tasteful. I was fairly certain that direct insults are banned here. Am I wrong? Did the rules change?

Link to the thread in question: https://www.imamother.com/foru.....50541

If you report an offensive comment, it will flag a moderator who will either lock the thread or tell the person to delete the comment.

Rappel

Tue, Nov 20 2018, 12:42 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

The rebuttals seemed perfectly proportionate to me. Confused

I personally don't think the initial comment was helpful, or in good taste. But neither were the responses.

Here, a direct quote from the rules:

1. Treat each other with dignity and respect. All dialogue should be in a polite and civil tone. All members have the right to engage in heated and even passionate debate, as long as you can address issues, not people. Launching personal attacks against another member is unacceptable. Avoid words of incitement. Language meant merely to mock and insult should never be used. Avoid stereotyping and sweeping generalities, such as defining whole groups' behaviour by the behaviour of some. Many types of women are represented on Imamother. You wouldn't want to offend someone inadvertently.

southernbubby

Tue, Nov 20 2018, 12:44 pm

Rappel wrote:

Southern bubby, I did, for the meds comment, but that was hours ago. I figured either all the mods are busy, or there really was nothing wrong with it. When I saw that more insults were thrown I opened up this thread to clarify the rules of engagement.

Personally I do think that it is an inappropriate comment to say that someone is "off their meds". I am sure that could be offensive to the many on here who require those medications.

Seas should have clarified what she meant by her statement which might have simply meant that we don't know what made the parents perpetrate such evil.

33055

Tue, Nov 20 2018, 12:49 pm

Rappel wrote:

It is well within the rules to gang up on Seas and Cheiny. You get bonus points if you do it as amother.

Rappel

Tue, Nov 20 2018, 12:55 pm

Squishy wrote:

It is well within the rules to gang up on Seas and Cheiny. You get bonus points if you do it as amother.

Your brevity adds levity. Wink

But in all seriousness: that thread feels like open season on Seas. Maybe it's because of the anonymity of the internet, but it felt like a gang-up in the schoolyard, rather than an adult discussion.

jkl

Tue, Nov 20 2018, 12:59 pm

Rappel wrote:

Your brevity adds levity. Wink

But in all seriousness: that thread feels like open season on Seas. Maybe it's because of the anonymity of the internet, but it felt like a gang-up in the schoolyard, rather than an adult discussion.

I agree, though I got the impression she was trying to bait us here.

Seas

Tue, Nov 20 2018, 1:05 pm

Thanks OP.

My broader point, which was obviously too subtle, was that everyone is judgemental when it's something they feel passionate about.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely abhor child abusers and am quite happy to condemn the wicked parents (if it's true - I'm somewhat skeptical of Israeli authorities when reporting on frum people).

But see, if I ever dare voice a judgement about any spiritual rasha, even someone who is openly anti Hashem, I get the usual suspects jumping down my throat. They suddenly become experts in hilchos ahavas Yisroel and lashon hora.

But the very same class of posters, whenever there's any hint of scandal in frum communities (see also for example the El Al thread), quite happily judge and condemn like there's no tomorrow.

Suddenly all the limudei zchus, issurim of lashon hora, dinim of ahavas Yisroel, all fly out of the window.

So it's not about not being judgemental, but about choosing where to apply judgement.

And as an aside, these same posters who'd be up in arms of I said for example that a mechalel Shabbos is a rasha, are quite happy to be nasty and mean to me. Seemingly, ahavas Yisroel and lashon hora only apply to secular Jews.

jkl

Tue, Nov 20 2018, 1:10 pm

Seas wrote:

This is not to condone any judgmental behavior, but this is important to highlight:

Spirituality is between a person and God, and there's no way anyone can truly know what is in the mind of another person.

But physicality - with evidence confirming it - is in our realms, and we can publicly condemn such behavior.

With you judge someone spiritually, you're attempting to play God. When you judge physical behavior, you're playing a human.

Last edited by jkl on Tue, Nov 20 2018, 1:14 pm; edited 1 time in total

shabbatiscoming

Tue, Nov 20 2018, 1:12 pm

Seas wrote:

Enough, stop, please just stop. No more. You abhor the abusers but you dont know if its true?
Why would anyone lie about ELEVEN children being abused? And the link in that thread was from a frum site, not an israeli one.

Iymnok

Tue, Nov 20 2018, 1:23 pm

The Israeli authorities have improved drastically in their interactions with chareidim. Thr Revacha appointed a lady from my community to deal with the frum people.
For the most part they really want to help.
There are bad apples in every batch, so I won’t say that chareidim are always treated with the utmost respect...
I can’t say anything about this case since I am not privy to any details. I am sure that the children are in safe environments. There are many chareidi foster homes.

Rappel

Tue, Nov 20 2018, 1:25 pm

Seas wrote:

Thanks OP.

My broader point, which was obviously too subtle, was that everyone is judgemental when it's something they feel passionate about.

Thank you for explaining your stance.

I do think there are a lot of biting comments lately. I keep wondering why, and I've come up with three possible theories:

1. There is a sort of subliminal messaging that goes on when I scroll down a thread. As I skim the responses, other people's comments give form to thoughts which previously only swirled in my subconscious, and I find myself typing a response which may be completely different than my thoughts after reading the OP. If everyone else is reading in the same fashion as I am, this means that one acidic post will trigger more, as readers pick up on the tone of the discussion.
2. It's gratifying to get more likes. Definitive (and often abrasively stated) opinions will get more likes.
3. It feels nice when someone agrees with you. If someone states an opinion firmly as in #2, then others are more likely to join in, and will feel liberated and validated by the group they put themselves in.

-----
I used to think the fights lowered the tone. Today, when I skimmed over the threads, I saw posts which were downright hurtful.

Any ideas on how to reduce the scrappy fighting, and raise the discourse?

33055

Tue, Nov 20 2018, 1:33 pm

Rappel wrote:

Your brevity adds levity. Wink

But in all seriousness: that thread feels like open season on Seas. Maybe it's because of the anonymity of the internet, but it felt like a gang-up in the schoolyard, rather than an adult discussion.

That's exactly what I think of when the imamothers bully certain posters. They love to gang up like little school girls. My maybe explanation is frum people are more conforming than others. We have extreme monkey see monkey do. Look at the threads asking if they can still wear black tights or did the great switch over happen already?

Maya

Tue, Nov 20 2018, 1:40 pm

Squishy wrote:

It is well within the rules to gang up on Seas and Cheiny. You get bonus points if you do it as amother.

Yes, poor innocent posters, ganged up on for no good reason.

I’m also someone who gets a lot of cr*p, but I know it’s because I have strong and often unpopular opinions, and because of my background sometimes say things that people don’t want to hear. If I was scared of the backlash, I wouldn’t express those opinions here.

People respond the way they are talked to. If these posters have objections to being ganged up on, perhaps they should avoid making the controversial comments that they do. But it seems to me that they exactly what they’re doing.

33055

Tue, Nov 20 2018, 1:45 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

There are lot of explanations for reasons people lie about crimes. Maybe someone wants a promotion or to look good (Detective Louis Scarcella), Maybe they are trying to drive traffic to their site (Rolling Stone's - “A Rape on Campus”). Maybe the 17 year old did something wrong and is covering it up with a story. (Tawana Brawley).

You can't accept what newspapers report as the absolute truth. The rush to judgement is wrong.

I don't know about Isreal's law. Is there a presumption of innocence?

ectomorph

Tue, Nov 20 2018, 1:45 pm

Maya wrote:

thats not fair.

Left wing posters make strong comments and aren't called on it. Stuff like frum people are always xxxx or whatever. If a right wing person pushes back they get it from all sides

Like many female groups I find that this website often prioritises emotion over debate