Jerusalem and measles

amother

Honeydew

Sun, Dec 02 2018, 7:21 am

ggdm wrote:

I am not in the US and they are not vaccinating my child here before 11 months old. I was not able to find more specific information than "there is a measles outbreak, get vaccinated" on the CDC page, but maybe I am searching wrong.

In the U.S., there are travel clinics which provide medical guidance for people who plan to travel abroad. Do you have that where you are?

Teomima

Sun, Dec 02 2018, 7:22 am

nchr wrote:

You're less likely to come into contact with someone with the measles on an airplane than at a grocery store in Jerusalem at the moment.

I'm sorry but that's a bit ridiculous. I live in Jerusalem and like many thousands of other mothers in this city, I have a baby at home that is too young to be vaccinated. I don't live in isolation. My day consists of normal errands. Jerusalem does not look like a leper colony; there are not people out on the streets dying left and right. Use common sense, the same you'd use in tristate area outbreaks: don't go to the homes of people you know are anti-vaxers, don't go to crowded simchas in neighborhoods where there are outbreaks/lots of anti-vaxers, etc. But since there's no way to vet your neighbors on the plane, and you're in a crowded, isolated space breathing recycled air for eleven hours straight, I'd certainly be more concerned about flying than a Jerusalem grocery store.

Then again, at some point you've got to use the logic us Israelis have developed after years of living through wars and terrorism: you'd can't stop living just because the world gets scary. Life goes on. And yes, that includes the need to get milk from the store (or drop my kids off at school, or take them to the zoo, or pick them up from the library, or go to the pizza parlor, or fill a prescription at the pharmacy, etc etc)

Last edited by Teomima on Sun, Dec 02 2018, 7:32 am; edited 1 time in total

Israeli_C

Sun, Dec 02 2018, 8:38 am

Teomima wrote:

Amen! My thoughts exactly. I'm also an Israeli mom, soon to have newborn twins bezrat Hashem. Life goes on, you can't live in a bubble. Just have some common sense and the rest is in G-d's hands.

etky

Sun, Dec 02 2018, 8:57 am

imasoftov wrote:

Thanks, but I really meant by neighborhood, not by city.

Well, maybe this can help OP and others who are debating whether to come to Israel and if so, which places to possibly avoid.
In Jerusalem I would avoid the very haredi neighborhoods like Mea Shearim where there are known pockets of anti-vaxers.
Oh, and you can add one more case in Efrat: friends of ours were just notified that they were exposed to a measles patient in shul over Shabbat...

nchr

Sun, Dec 02 2018, 9:10 am

Teomima wrote:

Your comment here is out of line or misdirected. I stated a statistical fact and you decided that I'm lacking logic, tact and am fear based. Statistically, at the moment, you are more likely to come into contact with measles in Jerusalem than in an airport. Another amother was trying to place fear into someone regarding traveling on airplanes. I was not trying to scare someone into not going to Israel/Jerusalem. CDC has travel warnings for Israel not for airplanes, which does not mean you should not travel to Israel, but that you shouldn't be made to feel afraid of traveling on a plane. Your post was an emotional overreaction and there was no reason for you to respond to my comment in the manner in which you did; however, I assume you confused it with some of the other hysteria being spewed around, although my comment had to do with statistical facts and was not advice/fear/etc.

amother

Babypink

Sun, Dec 02 2018, 10:19 am

Just FYI, the Israeli media is having a field day with all this 'haredim are the ones not vaccinating', but the fact is that they're far from being the only sector of Israeli society with higher non-vaxx rates. Anthroposophic educational centers are also rife with anti-vaxxers, and include many devoutly secular Israelis. For some reason, all of the non-vaxxers I know are DL and vegan. Hard to pin down a 'type' of non-vaxxer.

Teomima

Sun, Dec 02 2018, 4:42 pm

nchr wrote:

Yes, the CDC has issues Watch-Level 1 status for measles in Israel (as well as France, England, Italy, Greece, Brazil, etc etc). Watch-Level 1 says to "practice usual precautions". It is not an Alert-Level 2 ("practice enhanced precautions") and it's certainly not a Warning- Level 3 ("avoid nonessential travel").

Meanwhile the Israeli Health Ministry has been publishing information about known exposures on various flights into Israel, such as flight 788 from Turkey on October 11th and flight 153 from Bucharest on November 20th.

I'm trying hard not to say something snarky here. I apologize, your tone bothers me and I do want to keep this civil. Let me just end with this: my husband is a nurse in Jerusalem. He treats dozens of people on a daily basis. Since this outbreak he has, for the first time in his life, seen measles in person.
It was not at the grocery store.

nchr

Sun, Dec 02 2018, 5:35 pm

Teomima wrote:

I'm really sorry you feel that way and I'm not so sure were not necessarily on the same page. Or st least a similar one.

ggdm

Sun, Dec 02 2018, 6:00 pm

nchr wrote:

I'm really sorry you feel that way but I also dont understand how your comment is an appropriate response to mine. I tried to put some calm into a post where another woman was telling someone to fear air travel.

I am that poster and I understood your point nchr and I agree. It is a game of statistics. Sometimes it is difficult to get our feelings in sync with reality. Perceived risk and real risk is not the same.

Thank you also for the person who posted the link with the list of numbers by city. It is helpful. I have eliminated Tzfat from the list of places where I will go. But a more fine-grained picture of Jerusalem and Tel Aviv would still be appreciated.

To the people who talked about speaking to a travel clinic and the pediatrician: I have done that. But as it is purely a leisure trip with no real convincing reason, the feedback I get is "don't go". Also because they see Israel as some third world country in war-state and would anyway not go there even without measles. But I will go. I think the risk of flying there and visiting non-hotspot places is acceptable (to me, not judging others who think differently). I am just nervous about Jerusalem. But I would so much hate to go to Israel and not go to Jerusalem, so probably I will go.

amother

Burlywood

Sun, Dec 02 2018, 7:06 pm

Teomima wrote:

Many Tristate area pediatricians recommend keeping unvaccinated babies home. Period. No grocery stores, no shul nothing. My friend has been home with her infant for months.

chanchy123

Mon, Dec 03 2018, 6:12 am

Teomima wrote:

I agree 100% I have a nine month old baby and I don't limit where I take him (would not take him to ant-vaxxers home or anything like that obviously).
However, if I had a child who was immune suppressant CVS I would be extra cautious.

chanchy123

Mon, Dec 03 2018, 6:21 am

amother wrote:

Many Tristate area pediatricians recommend keeping unvaccinated babies home. Period. No grocery stores, no shul nothing. My friend has been home with her infant for months.

I'm sorry, that's crazy. The risk of infection is so low. I'm pretty sure the risk for any PPD with the mom who is stuck at home, or the child who is not exposed to the outside environment and has no chance to build up their immune system is far greater.

I am very much pro vaccination - through and through - but think of the actual facts. Statistically chances of infection are very very low. Even if a baby is infection, it is an unpleasant disease, it should have been eradicated, but even if the unlikely chance that your infant is infected, most chances are your child will come out unscathed as most babies did in the past before the vaccine.

I can't believe a serious medical practitioner would advise such extreme measures for such minuscule chance of danger.

amother

Burlywood

Mon, Dec 03 2018, 7:41 am

chanchy123 wrote:

No its not. Thats why the pediatricians recommend staying home. An unvaccinated individual has a 90 percent chance of gettings measles if exposed to air that has measles in it.

The doctors arent happily prescribing house arrest like a bunch of idiots. They are slowly shaking their heads as they say it "im really sorry mrs s, this sounds crazy as I say it and I dont even know if youll be able to do it, but the safest thing for your baby is to keep him home. There is no way I can tell you its safe to take him out. Do your best. .."

etky

Mon, Dec 03 2018, 7:53 am

Once exposed, infection is almost inevitable for those without immunity.
Measles is the most infectous disease known to man.
Limiting exposure is the only way to protect those without immunity.
The lengths to which someone should go to avoid exposure depends on the prevalence of the disease in their community and on the vulnerability of the unimmunized person.
In areas where there are active outbreaks - like Jerusalem and certain neighborhoods in the tristate area, you have to be more careful, especially with young infants for whom measles and its complications are more dangerous.
If I had an infant too young to be immunized I'd do my best to keep him home until the outbreak abates. And no, I wouldn't take a trip to Israel right now for no compelling reason.