Anti-vaxxers out of schools

amother

Papaya

Thu, Nov 22 2018, 8:17 pm

For those whose children have been excluded from school for the duration of the outbreak:

What is your plan? This likely will last months - are any of your friends thinking of "caving" just to get their kids back to school? Are you homeschooling?

I am posting here because it is a chinuch question, but I also want to post as amother because I am outspoken on Imamother on the vaccine issue. I don't want others' perception of me and my opinions to color their answers to my question as answering someone pro-vax or anti-vax.

amother

Chocolate

Thu, Nov 22 2018, 8:47 pm

it boils down to selfishness: selfish, because your belief puts the general population at risk, and most are now caving in and vaccinating according to school statistics which again shows how selfish you may be. if you truly believe its dangerous, how dare you put your child at risk, and go against everything you believe because homeschooling is hard, inconvenient, and/or you may he at work or other.

amother

Coral

Thu, Nov 22 2018, 9:31 pm

will the schools be upset once one of their students dies from the vaccine? You can't force something that's unavoidably unsafe. A percentage will die from every vaccine. If we're discussing measles you could say that a percentage will die from measles, but if we're talking about the USA it's highly unlikely--- if you do the math more have died from the vaccine than from the illness and measles is easy enough to work through with high dosages of vitamin A.

My kids aren't in Jewish schools and in my state, public school doesn't force vaccines, BH.

giselle

Thu, Nov 22 2018, 9:34 pm

amother wrote:

Is this satire?

amother

Aqua

Thu, Nov 22 2018, 9:35 pm

amother wrote:

I don’t know where you’re getting your statistics from. How many children are scientifically proven to have died from the vaccine? While I do believe that side effects are possible, what you’re talking about must be very, very rare.

And do you know why very few children have died from the measles in the USA? ...

Vaccines.

amother

Coral

Thu, Nov 22 2018, 9:47 pm

amother wrote:

you can start with VAERS to find out the numbers of how many have died from the vaccine---most doctors obviously do NOT help families report to VAERS so the number on VAERS is lower than actual.

Many of the things for which we vaccinate were going down in incidence because of better hygiene before the vaccines were introduced. you can specifically look at the chart for measles to see the downward trend long before the vaccine was introduced.

Vaccinate or don't, but don't force others to do what you decide to do, especially when an ex-vaxxer family who may be at your school may have had a child or relative or friend who has died from a vaccine or remained in diapers into their 20's because of grand mal seizures, etc. It's NOT rare.

southernbubby

Thu, Nov 22 2018, 10:36 pm

To Chocolate: altruism is rare.
To powder blue: It is common for a fever and a rash to appear 10 days after receiving the MMR

To Coral: children under 2 are more likely to die or be harmed by measles than are school aged children and Vitamin A cuts the death rate in half.

To Aqua: unfortunately there are many sad stories of children who died or were harmed by vaccines and these are not hard to find. It is time that the medical community acknowledges these stories rather than referring to them as 'coincidences' because the more that these stories are viewed as lies, myths, old wives tales, media hype, etc. the less that people trust vaccines.

To mommala 120, absolute proof is hard to find but there are many stories that all sound somewhat the same. When you think about it, the average child would probably not suffer from all the diseases that he or she is vaccinated against, even if vaccines would not have been invented. Somehow our grandparents survived with only a small pox vaccine.

To Out of Towner: Here in sunny, tropical Detroit, a frum physician convinced all the frum schools here to permanently expel non-vaccinated children. They can't even return after the danger has passed, unless they vaccinate. Maybe they should make their own Chanukah parties and even their own school. It will be so good that the vaccinated kids will want to come and then the whole cycle will start all over again.

amother

Apricot

Thu, Nov 22 2018, 10:45 pm

My anti-vax friend claims that the people who are now getting the mmr vaccine are spreading the measles because there is no way it could spread like this because not all unvaccinated kids were in contact with each other. Also, she claims that it is not all true the number of people who got it because she knows of big pediatric practices who didn't see any cases. (this is monsey) She is so clueless and uneducated that we cant even have a rational discussion on this topic

I gave my son the mmr the day he turned 4 and explained to him that it is important because he shouldn't get sick. We have no clue what the future will bring and what will be with these diseases in the future but I know I did my hishdadlus.

amother

Coral

Thu, Nov 22 2018, 10:56 pm

amother wrote:

I'm staunchly pro-Vax but think about the irony...
The anti-Vax kids are home with mom - that is, till mom needs something from the supermarket. Then the anti-Vax kids are on the check-out line together with the not-yet-immunized infants of the pro-vaxers.

yes-- why limit to school? Why not make the anti-vaxxers wear yellow stars so that when we're out in the community people know who we are? What a fabulous idea.... separate grocery stores! Separate everything! Yes SouthernBubby--- separate schools!

southernbubby

Thu, Nov 22 2018, 11:42 pm

amother wrote:

But your school will be the better one and the vaccinated kids will be clamoring to come and eventually they will take over and throw out the non-vaccinated kids once again.

NovelConcept

Fri, Nov 23 2018, 1:29 am

pizza4 wrote:

More than 2 moms I know gave in and vaccinated and their children are perfectly fine. More like 7

Three in my own family, all perfectly fine, even the one who has been sickly for years. That child had a fever the next day and then recovered. The other kids didn't even get fever.

As for the crowd of fervent anti-vaxxers, I've heard that they've hired their own teachers to provide education during the time they are not welcome to send their children to school.

amother

Burgundy

Fri, Nov 23 2018, 5:25 am

amother wrote:

Shame on us! Jews acting worse than Public schools !

amother

Cerulean

Fri, Nov 23 2018, 5:51 am

amother wrote:

Actually, there are two different strains of measles - one is the wild strain, the other is the vaccine strain that is passed by those who have been vaccinated. They are very similar but can be tracked and that's how it was found for example, that the outbreak at Disneyland several years ago that was blamed on the unvaccinated, was found to be started by someone vaccinated who spread the vaccine strain measles. That strain cannot be spread by the unvaccinated.

Although the measles vaccine is one of the most effective, the immunity wears off in 5 - 7 years, and doesn't have a absolute effectiveness rate even for those fully vaccinated. And in this article you can see that the vaccinated are 5-8 times more susceptible to asymptomatic infection than the immune non-vaccinated. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9700638.

There's a tremendous amount of information about vaccines available, and no one who has done any research, whether they do or don't vaccinate their children, would say that there are no risks, no side effects and no deaths for those who are vaccinated.

You don't have to look at sites that aren't supportive of vaccination for this information; look at the inserts of every single vaccine you give your children, look at the CDC website, look at the payouts given to the many people irreparably harmed by vaccines. If you look at these records, you'll see why the mmr vaccine is one that would cause most parents the most concern.

In industrialized countries measles is a mild illness that passes with rest. Since it depletes the vitamin A in one's body, supplementing with Vitamin A will significantly reduce the duration and intensity of the symptoms.