Satmar Rabbi Aaron teitelbaum declares war on DOE

leah233

Sun, Dec 02 2018, 10:45 am

amother wrote:

I used to think like you, that it’s so simple to switch a boy out of a chasidish cheder.

When my son was in 8th grade, I planned on applying to Flatbush high schools.

We consulted with someone who works in a Flatbush yeshiva and were told the secular education there is not much better than the Chasidish yeshivas, and if this was the only purpose for applying to the school, we would be very disappointed.

That does not sound correct. All Flatbush Mesivtos have Regents whereas the only Chasidshe Mesivtos in Boro Park that I'm aware of which do are Stolin, Bobov (optional) and Novominsk (which isn't so Chasidshe)I'm guessing Chasan Sofer also does

I'm not involved in this debate because it's too emotionally charged and I'm not telling you where to send your child, but on a personal note if you believe that the Litvish Mesivtos in Flatbush don't have a better secular education than the Chasidish ones in Boro Park you were misled. Please do more research.

Last edited by leah233 on Sun, Dec 02 2018, 10:52 am; edited 3 times in total

amother

Tangerine

Sun, Dec 02 2018, 10:47 am

leah233 wrote:

That does not sound correct. All Flatbush Mesivtos have Regents where as the only Chasidshe Mesivtos in Boro Park that I'm aware of which do are Stolin, Bobov (optional) and Novomink (which isn't so Chasidshe)I'm guessing Chasan Sofer also does

I'm not involved in this debate because it's too emotionally charged and I'm not telling you where to send your child, but on a personal note if you believe that the Litvish Mesivtos in Flatbush don't have a better education that the Chasidish ones in Boro Park you were misled. Please do more research.

See my next post, I did find a heimish (not affiliated with a specific chasidus and not one that you mentioned ) yeshiva that teaches regents subjects.

There was no compelling reason to switch, when I was able to find a Yeshivah that taught regents subject.

My son has already graduated and is BH just as bright as the average Flatbush yeshiva graduate. We are an English speaking home and my son can speak, read, and write just as well as your average yeshiva boy.

amother

Tangerine

Sun, Dec 02 2018, 11:37 am

There was a write-up recently in Hamodia about an organization that was founded for the purpose of creating a custom secular curriculum for Chasidish yeshivas.

I got the impression that most chasidish yeshivas are interested in complying with the government standards ( I’m not sure about Satmar).

The primary obstacle for these yeshivas other than finances is probably finding male teachers who are qualified to teach secular subjects. When my brothers were in a chasidish cheder years ago they had public school teachers on staff.

Zehava

Sun, Dec 02 2018, 11:47 am

amother wrote:

The organization (pearls) was created to create the false impression that yeshivahs want to comply. They have no internation of doing so. Regardless they don’t need a new curriculum. All they have to do is transfer the robust curriculum they have for girls, to their boys division.
Your impression is wrong
The primary obstacle is that they believe that teaching secular subjects to boys is bitul Torah and dangerous. Full stop. The rest is excuses.

amother

Tangerine

Sun, Dec 02 2018, 11:56 am

Zehava, this may be true for some chasidish yeshivas. This is not true for ALL of them. The administrator in my son’s elementary school told my husband (before this debacle started) that he was actively working on improving the secular curriculum. He does not believe learning English subjects is bitul Torah at all.

And who would teach this curriculum taught in the girls’ schools?

flowerpower

Sun, Dec 02 2018, 11:59 am

Zehava wrote:

It’s 100% false! They are interested. I spoke directly to those behind the scenes of Pearls and they worked really hard to revise the curriculum. They spent many hours and days working on it. The inspectors that came down to a few schools were impressed and they passed with flying colors

amother

Ecru

Sun, Dec 02 2018, 12:01 pm

flowerpower wrote:

I guess the Satmar schools aren't interested in it. AFAIK, that's the community that Zehava is affiliated with.

chestnut

Sun, Dec 02 2018, 12:03 pm

flowerpower wrote:

Which schools did the inspectors visit?
These inspections took place within the past 2 y, correct? I haven't heard people saying their sons' chassidishe yeshivas improved their secular studies recently...

amother

Babypink

Sun, Dec 02 2018, 12:28 pm

amother wrote:

You forgot to add a number 8. None of the above

My husband is not well off
My parents don't support us
My kids are teens, husband gets insurance thru work because all employees get that
My kids are teens, I pay for full insurance for kids and no I don't have food stamps, medicaid or section8 or any other programs out there. I fully believe in reporting income honestly and if I need to fudge anything I'm not interested.
We don't have all the "goodies" and I take offense at people (like u) automatically assuming the worst
I don't solicit for donations
And I am very in touch with what goes on in the community

My husband is a very hardworking employee who doesn't get paid what he's worth and I dabble in ebay to try to bring in some income too.

But all of the above doesn't matter to you because you seem to be the type of person who no matter how wrong your opinion is, the louder you yell the more right you are.

Anything else I can help you with?

How many kids do you have and how do you pay for their tuition? how do you pay for camp? tutors? and all the other expenses associated with Jewish life in NY I.e. kosher food, bar mitzvahs, chasanahs, and still manage to pay rent and other bills if your husband is not earning enough and you don't get any govt benefits?

asmileaday

Sun, Dec 02 2018, 12:42 pm

The biggest lie fed to chassidish society is that you don't need a basic education to be successful in business.
That may be true for a very elite few. Not for the majority.
And for posters saying switch to a non chassidish yeshivah. That's being unrealistic. You can't take a fully chassidish boy and place him with only non chassidish kids. It's not gonna work. Boys just as much as girls have a need to fit in.

asmileaday

Sun, Dec 02 2018, 12:44 pm

I didn't follow the link in the Op but I can just imagine what he said. It's not true. They did this to themselves. I don't even feel bad.
I'm just sad that by the time we'll actually see some change my kids will be too big.

amother

Tangerine

Sun, Dec 02 2018, 12:46 pm

asmileaday wrote:

Well said, thank you.

If you do send to a chasidish cheder, you can give your sons a huge advantage by speaking English in the home, and by providing English reading materials.

Ema of 5

Sun, Dec 02 2018, 12:50 pm

Zehava wrote:

I guess the rambam was making excuses. And the chofetz Chaim. And many people in between.

Metukah

Sun, Dec 02 2018, 12:53 pm

asmileaday wrote:

I did it. Turns out I'm not the only one who feels that way and many kids in his class are chassidish. Possibly most. Not all shtreimel wearing... But mainly chassidish. His school is a cross between a cheder and a school. Hanholo is chassidish, kodesh principal is chassidish.

He is in elementary school and will continue into high school. He will take the regents equivalent, but one year early. They finish one year before high schools in this country and then the boys go to yeshiva. (at 15. High schools in this country end at 16).

Metukah

Sun, Dec 02 2018, 12:56 pm

eema of 3 wrote:

I guess the rambam was making excuses. And the chofetz Chaim. And many people in between.

What excuses are you referring to?

IMHO, in the yeshivas that only spend one hour a day studying secular studies don't take it very seriously.

To me, that is bittul torah. Wasting time is bittul torah. So if the kids are already spending time studying secular studies, do it properly. Investing some time in ensuring a chd has basic literacy and maths skills is not bittul torah.

cnc

Sun, Dec 02 2018, 12:57 pm

chestnut wrote:

My sons’ school has improved greatly in secular studies within the past few years and so has another school that I’m closely familiar with,

cnc

Sun, Dec 02 2018, 12:58 pm

Zehava wrote:

Your assumption is absolutely false,
I’ve seen improvement first hand in specific chadorim. (Which is where PEARLS parents send their sons). I don’t know where you send your sons (if applicable) or what mosed you associate with, but your general statement is inaccurate.

amother

Ruby

Sun, Dec 02 2018, 12:59 pm

Schools in UK are struggling with a required s-x ed education and teaching tolerance and acceptance of certain groups - when the school don’t even mention. The schools are really struggling with it.
But there it’s affecting Muslim and Christian schools so they are working together to fight it

flowerpower

Sun, Dec 02 2018, 1:00 pm

cnc wrote:

My sons’ school has improved greatly in secular studies within the past few years and so has another school that I’m closely familiar with,

Same here!

And I do blame a lot on the parents. It can’t only come from the school. When my boys start first grade they can read fluently. If there is zero back up at home then they kids will never learn. If the boys cannot speak proper english then parents are part of the issue. You can’t expect the school to teach 4 hours a week of english and they should know it all.