A New View of Education

amother

cornflower

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 2:05 pm

Seeing several recent threads about education, school rules, school punishments, etc. has fired me up to write about something that's been brewing in my mind for a while.

I am writing this under amother because I talk about this A LOT with those I am close to, and want to protect my anonymity on this site.

So here goes:

I wonder what parents' reactions/responses would be to new schools and cheders being opened up in large, frum, Ultra-Orthodox communities, with a Montessori approach, balanced secular/Hebrew studies, and school rules that honor the child for what they are: a unique child.
(NOTE: The Montessori approach is a way of teaching that includes more than just a desk and a blackboard; it includes art, movement, educational trips, sports, business education, hands-on learning, etc. It goes along with a child's natural and inborn curiosity and interest, rather than telling the child exactly how they should be learning. I can provide additional links if anyone would like.)

My hope is that such schools can start becoming the norm across the board, from litvish to yeshivish to MO to Chassidish communities and beyond.

What would parents be wary about such a new school? What are some concerns that parents might have? Some worries?
What are some hopes that parents might have in such a program? Some things parents might like to see?

And what are the changes from what we now have as the 'mainstream education system' that YOU as a parent would want to see different?

I value every comment - your thoughts may actually help me move forward with actually getting this off the ground. So please be open, honest, and share your thoughts!

Thanks in advance!

groisamomma

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 2:08 pm

My experience with the Montessori approach is that it only works up to a certain age.

amother

cornflower

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 2:10 pm

groisamomma wrote:

My experience with the Montessori approach is that it only works up to a certain age.

Sure.
So imagine a Montessori approach until that age, followed by a Montessori-informed approach (e.g. person-centered) for later.

amother

Magenta

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 2:21 pm

groisamomma wrote:

My experience with the Montessori approach is that it only works up to a certain age.

I agree. After a certain age, especially when of the age when learning is not considered to be fun, this no longer works.

This system automatically assumes that every child has a deep seated interest to develop himself. Some children are capable of doing great things, but lack the motivation or interest. The current system pushes a child to learn and stretch themselves even when they would rather not. In the montessori system, these children would lag behind, or do less than they're capable of. It's particular true of the elementary age students. Preschoolers do have a deep interest for learning and many high schoolers are mature enough to strive to reach a goal.

mha3484

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 2:21 pm

My limited experience with Montessori is that that as boys get older the torah learning is not on par with your traditional yeshiva. For many of us that is an important factor in choosing a school.

Honestly my sons RW Yeshiva offers an even balance of Judaic and secular studies, the rules are not onerous for the parents and they can work with a fair amount of issues. You can provide hands on activities, art, music etc without the school being a montessori school.

trixx

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 2:39 pm

So basically a progressive school. They exist especially in the tri-state area, they're just few and far between, usually more modern orthodox leaning than say charedi or chassidish, and are possibly more expensive.

marina

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 2:43 pm

https://www.lamplightersyeshivah.org/

amother

cornflower

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 2:45 pm

marina wrote:

https://www.lamplightersyeshivah.org/

This is amazing!

Yes, something like this, but I wonder if it would work well in, say, Chasidish communities?

chestnut

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 2:49 pm

How would the Montessori approach work for middle and high school girls?

amother

cornflower

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 2:59 pm

chestnut wrote:

How would the Montessori approach work for middle and high school girls?

With a Montessori-informed approach, here are some examples:
*students would get a say in what subjects interest them more and in learning those subjects more in depth (they still learn the things they are less interested in, but in a more relaxed environment and with more resources than just books and blackboards)

*Classroom rules are more relaxed, with a focus on what they 'can' do instead of what they 'cannot' do

*Report cards are filled out by the teacher and student together, with both of them discussing how they feel the specific subject/course is going

*At least 8 educational trips per year (imagine once a month) where students can apply the material they are learning to real-world examples (e.g. science, history, economics, etc.)

*Greater focus on real-world skills, such as business, interpersonal relationships, cooking, carpentry, etc.

*Leadership opportunities for all students

*Large selection of extra-curriculars

chestnut

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 3:04 pm

How would you achieve it while satisfying regent reqs? (Assuming you are in NYS)
What happens when students disagree with the teacher's evaluation of their skills, as far as the report card grades go?
How many students would there be in a school, for everyone to have a leadership role?

amother

Burlywood

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 3:07 pm

We love our MO Montessori school, and yes, it's great for middle school and the students are well-prepared for mainstream high schools. I don't really know the non-MO mindset, so I don't know what the issues would be. In general, I have observed that parents don't like to take risks with their children's education, so it takes an intrepid core group to get a new/different school going. Once other people see success, they are more likely to sign on.

amother

Navy

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 3:12 pm

We have a such a school where I live (Williamsburg) but dh refused to allow me to put my daughter there since it’s on shaky ground and almost closed a few times due to lack of funds. If they close when she’s in elementary school it’ll be harder to get her into a new school.

seeker

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 3:20 pm

I think the concern for people in chasidish communities would likely be acceptance within the broader community. Individuals who are looking to branch out would probably love to have something like this, but even they may be held back by worries that they will be rejected from other communal constructs, like shidduchim or post-grade-school yeshivas.

SuperWify

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 3:29 pm

I’m all for this approach. The extracurricular, choices in subjects ect. However, my concerns are more behavioral. How will a child learn to listen to rules? Is there no discipline whatsoever? As far as scholastic concerns- what if the child never chooses to learn the basics such as foundations in reading or basic math? I understand not every child needs to learn algebra but what about basic arithmetic?

Also what happens when a child graduates 8th grade? How will he or she function in a mainstream high school?

amother

Coffee

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 3:32 pm

My concerns are on selfishness. I've noticed a self centeredness from children who are schooled with the Montessori approach that comes through at a certain age.

groisamomma

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 3:53 pm

Like I said, the Montessori approach only works until grade school. After that I think you're looking at methods that are already incorporated in public education. They aren't attributed to Montessori, they're called the Danielson methods and the aim is to create learning environments that are student-centered and facilitated by the teacher rather than the middle schooler calling all the shots (Montessori method) or, on the opposite extreme, completely lecture-based (frum schools).

amother wrote:

Students choose electives in addition to core subjects. They all take a semester of art, media, etc. but also have choices such as coding class, or STEM enrichment.

Most kids don't appreciate Math or LAL but are forced to take them. Therefore, the Danielson approach gives them choices within that environment. For example, we offer them assessments that are projects-based, computer-based, old fashioned pencil and paper, etc. Not all the choices exist all the time but students definitely have opportunities to show what they know in ways they are best at.

As for resources, our public schools have access to resources like student iPads, Sonic TVs (more advanced SMART boards), etc because internet access is allowed. Also, additional teaching resources would cost frum schools a fortune. Double tuition? No thanks.

amother wrote:

*Classroom rules are more relaxed, with a focus on what they 'can' do instead of what they 'cannot' do

See above regarding student-focused learning. Classroom rules vary by teacher but are infinitely more relaxed than my kids' schools. If a kid is hungry, they can eat. If they're thirsty, they get a drink. Once we begin to acknowledge that kids learn better when their external needs are met, we can have way less rigidity in the feum classrooms.

amother wrote:

Report cards are filled out by the teacher and student together, with both of them discussing how they feel the specific subject/course is going

We call this student accountability where the kids are encouraged to take responsibility for their own learning. I can lecture until tomorrow, but you have to demonstrate that you actually learned the material and can use it. There are no surprises report-card time because they can see their progress in real time. In frum schools, teachers give tests and because it's graded by hand, it can take a teacher 2 weeks to return a test sometimes! Our kids have access to their own grade books (internet again) and check their grades constantly. Part of taking responsibility for their learning is coming up with ways to raise their grade (either my ideas or theirs if it's reasonable). I call my kids' teachers if a test isn't returned before the next test of the same subject is administered because they will never know to change what they did wrong if the test wasn't returned.

amother wrote:

At least 8 educational trips per year (imagine once a month) where students can apply the material they are learning to real-world examples (e.g. science, history, economics, etc.)

Nope, one field trip per class, unless you're in clubs or electives that require additional trips for coursework, such as peer mediation classes, AVID (college prep classes at the middle school level) etc.

amother wrote:

Greater focus on real-world skills, such as business, interpersonal relationships, cooking, carpentry, etc.

All offered in after-school clubs or classes they can take. Interpersonal relationships leads back to clubs such as Circle of friends clubs, peer mediation classes, and similar. Woodshop, home ec club, all offered and would costs our schools a bloody fortune.

amother wrote:

Leadership opportunities for all students

Student council reps, safety patrol students, pretty much every kid can choose to shine by choosing what to join. If you're in the Battle of the Books club, you compete with other schools and take trips, for example, after which you encourage your peers to read by turn-keying what you gained.

amother wrote:

Large selection of extra-curriculars

See above. Again, at additional cost to the frum parents. No thanks.

amother

Burlywood

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 3:57 pm

SuperWify wrote:

I understand your concerns, but there are lots of misconceptions here. Montessori schools vary, but this is our experience, which is consistent with what I have read about in mainstream non-Jewish Montessori schools.

Montessori classrooms are extremely orderly. In order for students to be able to work autonomously, they need to know the classroom routine. There are easily as many classroom management rules in a Montessori school as there are in a conventional school, although the rules may be different. Especially in the younger grades, Montessori classrooms are much quieter and calmer than in conventional schools, although you will observe the "busy hum of activity" of students working. I have never heard a Montessori teacher raise his or her voice.

This isn't "unschooling." There are real academic standards, although students progress at their own pace. Teachers monitor the students' progress closely. Lessons are presented in an organized way, typically in small groups, by the teacher. Montessori schools are exceptionally successful in teaching basic (and not-so-basic) math and reading to young children.

All kids are different, but my observation has been that Montessori kids do very well in high school. They are engaged in their work, self-motivated, academically prepared and not trained to perform for external rewards.

amother

Rose

Sat, Dec 01 2018, 12:35 pm

Very interesting thought OP. I’d love to have such a school around- I have used many of Montessori’s ideas when my children were around that age. As far as I know Montessori is aimed at children up to 5 and less to older ones. Is that correct?

BUT I think that today’s school system might ironically lack structure rather than to have too much of it. I see this in my own child whom we are testing for ADD: if there would be more structure laid out such as a schedule all kids can see, written down homework, less “creative” work etc that child might not have the problem to that extent. I’ve read this idea in an article recently and it makes sense to me based on what I’ve seen.
Today’s parents are very results focused which might mean you would need to give them a paper to compare their child to others. Result of a society that values the individual more than the group and therefore needs to compare itself constantly.

Ruchel

Sat, Dec 01 2018, 1:19 pm

I was, one year, in a Montessori. It is safe to say there wasn't all this available