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Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling
I got myself in a pickle
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amother
Violet


 

Post Tue, Dec 18 2018, 5:37 pm
I really got myself into a bad situation. I'm hoping you wise mothers can help me out.
I have an 11 year old daughter who goes to beis yaakov. She is an avid reader. Up until recently I only let her read books that I have already read. But lately I can't keep up with pre-reading whatever book she wants to read first. I found the website "common sense media" and it gives a rating for every book. It will tell you if the book has any language, violence, s-xuality etc. This has been working very well for us, and she found some books she loved which were completely innocent. A few weeks ago she found the magnus chase series by rick riorden at the library. I looked it up on the website and it sounded fine so we took it out. She absolutely loved it and a week later we took out the next book in the series. She loved that one too. She said something about a character that uses magic to switch back and forth between being a girl and a boy, and that definitely made me wonder if the author was slipping in some krum innuendo, but I figured it would go over my innocent daughter's head. Today we took out the third and last book in the series. In the car on the way home, it occurred to be that I had only looked up the first book in the series, and I really should not assume that the next two books are innocent just because the first one was. I told my daughter that I need to look it up before she can read it. I hadn't looked it up yet before bedtime so I said she can read the first chapter tonight and I'll let her know if she can continue tomorrow morning. I really didn't imagine that there was a problem, I said it more as a formality. Well, guess what? All the reviews for the second book (which she already read!) flag this book because it introduces a transgender LGBTQ character. And in the third book (the one sitting on my daughter's nightstand) there is kissing and suggestive s-xuality between the male main character and this male/female supporting character.
HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm obviously not going to let her read it, but the question is, what do I say? She is going to want to know what is not ok in this book. Should I simply refuse to tell her? Should I tell her that it's about this concept, and explain it a little and why we don't read about stuff like that? I don't want to make this a big deal, but I know she will be heartbroken that she can't see whats going to happen with this series and she's going be VERY curious about what is in it that is so BAD.
Ps - I have very much learned my lesson, and will obviously be much, much more careful about what books we bring home in the future.
Any advice on the healthiest way to deal with this would be much appreciated.
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amother
Orchid


 

Post Tue, Dec 18 2018, 5:44 pm
I've had this situation, where I allowed a book and didn't realize the sequel is in a different category. I just took it away and let him know I made a mistake in not checking it more carefully. I didn't feel the need to go into detail, just said it's not appropriate for him to read. It was fine.
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amother
Violet


 

Post Tue, Dec 18 2018, 6:01 pm
Thanks for responding.
I know my daughter will push me for details. I can definitely just firmly say that I'm not getting into explanations, but do you think that's the best way to handle it? I always worry that sometimes the imagination of some great big, dark, taboo, unknown is worse then the simple truth. Basically that the simple truth explained in some kind of age appropriate way would leave her with less wild imaginations about what was so bad in that book.
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amother
Tangerine


 

Post Tue, Dec 18 2018, 6:05 pm
To be blunt: if you ban her from reading the book, her curiosity will be piqued and she will find the book from elsewhere and read it. I think by telling her it is not appropriate, you are drawing her attention to something that might go over her head or would have been ignored.
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amother
Amber


 

Post Tue, Dec 18 2018, 6:09 pm
You can tell her that a lot of what happens in the book is hepech Torah and it's not appropriate for us to read it and you'll help her choose another great book
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momsrus




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 18 2018, 6:10 pm
Not sure what you should do about the current situation you are in

But there are so many Jewish books out there. Why expose her to non Jewish?
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amother
Orchid


 

Post Tue, Dec 18 2018, 6:11 pm
amother wrote:
Thanks for responding.
I know my daughter will push me for details. I can definitely just firmly say that I'm not getting into explanations, but do you think that's the best way to handle it? I always worry that sometimes the imagination of some great big, dark, taboo, unknown is worse then the simple truth. Basically that the simple truth explained in some kind of age appropriate way would leave her with less wild imaginations about what was so bad in that book.


I give my kids a general idea of what makes a book inappropriate: violence, language, and attitudes/ lifestyle that are the opposite of what the Torah teaches us. I want them to understand for themselves so they can make judgements on their own when they're older.
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amother
Violet


 

Post Tue, Dec 18 2018, 6:13 pm
I think you're exactly right, but if she asks what the issue is specifically how should I answer?
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amother
Natural


 

Post Tue, Dec 18 2018, 6:13 pm
seems she already knows you look up her books before she reads them to determine if they are 'kosher' - tell her the website says this one isn't. Zeh who.
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amother
Violet


 

Post Tue, Dec 18 2018, 6:18 pm
momsrus wrote:
Not sure what you should do about the current situation you are in

But there are so many Jewish books out there. Why expose her to non Jewish?


I agree. She already read through the library at school and the jewish neighborhood library. And (until now) I felt like, why not expose her to wonderful stories and great writing as long and it's innocent.... now I'm realizing how dangerous this path is...
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amother
Amber


 

Post Tue, Dec 18 2018, 6:22 pm
When she asks what the issue is you clearly tell her that the characters are living a lifestyle that is against what Torah teaches us and we shouldn't be reading about it.
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Miri7




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 18 2018, 6:28 pm
We are MO and my kids read these. Honestly, if your child is going to read any real literature you’re going to see romance. Same for secular fiction like this. One option is to talk with your kids about what they read and your perspective on things.

That’s what we do and I realize that some people prefer to shield their kids completely from some concepts. Ours understand that we do things one way and others do things another way.
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amother
Violet


 

Post Tue, Dec 18 2018, 6:33 pm
amother wrote:
I give my kids a general idea of what makes a book inappropriate: violence, language, and attitudes/ lifestyle that are the opposite of what the Torah teaches us. I want them to understand for themselves so they can make judgements on their own when they're older.


Right. That's what I tell her too. It has come up in the past that a book will use the word "stupid" or "idiot" or the kids will be sarcastic and if it's not a big part of the book, I've let her read books in the past like that and just mention "you know that's not how we speak, but you can still read the book, just be aware when you get to this part that that's not the way a jewish child speaks" and that has been fine. I guess I can just see how this conversation is going to go
Her:what exactly makes this book so bad
Me: its just not appropriate, I don't want to get into the details, if I tell you about the inappropriate parts, then you might as well read the book.
Her: but mommy, I know when I read something that's not good middos that shouldn't learn from it! I'm not going to learn from it mommy! I love this series and the last book ends with such suspense! Please! I just want to know what's going to happen
Me: sorry sweetie, this one is not for us, I made a mistake by not checking it before, I'm sorry
Her: (sad, Curious, feeling like I don't trust her/wondering about the big bad world out there)
....am I being over dramatic here?
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tigerwife




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 18 2018, 6:36 pm
Miri7 wrote:
We are MO and my kids read these. Honestly, if your child is going to read any real literature you’re going to see romance. Same for secular fiction like this. One option is to talk with your kids about what they read and your perspective on things.

That’s what we do and I realize that some people prefer to shield their kids completely from some concepts. Ours understand that we do things one way and others do things another way.


I would agree with you but I’ve found that Rick Riordan really pushes his limits in his later books, and there are many problematic issues in the series mentioned. Light romance is ok but gay romance is just hashkafically wrong.

Op, I would be honest about the fact that only upon further review did you realize this book is pretty inappropriate. Chances are, she will find a way to read them anyway (especially if she read the first book- they are well written). Keep communication open. Maybe she will understand your reasoning and not want to read something that isn’t good for her, especially since she isn’t completely sheltered not restricted from everything and shouldn’t be dying of curiosity to read anything not Jewish.
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amother
Violet


 

Post Tue, Dec 18 2018, 6:45 pm
Miri7 wrote:
We are MO and my kids read these. Honestly, if your child is going to read any real literature you’re going to see romance. Same for secular fiction like this. One option is to talk with your kids about what they read and your perspective on things.

That’s what we do and I realize that some people prefer to shield their kids completely from some concepts. Ours understand that we do things one way and others do things another way.


Your kids read this particular series?
I'm ok with some subtle refernces to romance. She read anne of green gables and loved the drama between anne and gilbert. The little bit of dating stuff in harry potter and books like that are fine with me. Transgender homos-xual relationships is a bit above her 11 year old beis yaakov "pay grade".
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amother
Violet


 

Post Tue, Dec 18 2018, 6:53 pm
tigerwife wrote:
I would agree with you but I’ve found that Rick Riordan really pushes his limits in his later books, and there are many problematic issues in the series mentioned. Light romance is ok but gay romance is just hashkafically wrong.

Op, I would be honest about the fact that only upon further review did you realize this book is pretty inappropriate. Chances are, she will find a way to read them anyway (especially if she read the first book- they are well written). Keep communication open. Maybe she will understand your reasoning and not want to read something that isn’t good for her, especially since she isn’t completely sheltered not restricted from everything and shouldn’t be dying of curiosity to read anything not Jewish.

Thank you for this response. Have you read this particular series? I absolutely loved hearing hear laugh out loud while she was reading the last two books. The giggles were just bubbling out of her and I was so glad she found something she loved so much. Maybe I should get her another series by this author? Is there anything you can recommend by him that is innocent?
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amother
Khaki


 

Post Tue, Dec 18 2018, 6:55 pm
amother wrote:
Your kids read this particular series?
Im ok with some subtle refernces to romance. She read anne of green gables and loved the drama between anne and gilbert. The little bit of dating stuff in harry potter and books like that are fine with me. Trangender homos-xual relationships is a bit above her 11 year old bais yaakov "pay grade".


So why not explain that to her??? That you are okay with her reading books with subtle references to romance but this series that she has taken out has a romance between the same gender and that is not something you want her to read.
I think it pays to be honest with children. I believe that when something becomes forbidden with no explanation it piques the curiosity. Don't you rather discuss with her why certain books are inappropriate or not instead of her sneaking behind your back to find out 'what mommy was talking about when she said it is inappropriate'. (Speaking from personal experience here)
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amother
Amber


 

Post Tue, Dec 18 2018, 6:58 pm
amother wrote:
So why not explain that to her??? That you are okay with her reading books with subtle references to romance but this series that she has taken out has a romance between the same gender and that is not something you want her to read.
I think it pays to be honest with children. I believe that when something becomes forbidden with no explanation it piques the curiosity. Don't you rather discuss with her why certain books are inappropriate or not instead of her sneaking behind your back to find out 'what mommy was talking about when she said it is inappropriate'. (Speaking from personal experience here)


No frum 11 year old need to learn about same gender relationships. Absolutely not.
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amother
Copper


 

Post Tue, Dec 18 2018, 7:01 pm
In this day and age, it is highly unlikely she hasn't heard of the concept. That's just the reality nowadays.
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amother
Khaki


 

Post Tue, Dec 18 2018, 7:04 pm
amother wrote:
In this day and age, it is highly unlikely she hasn't heard of the concept. That's just the reality nowadays.


That was my thinking. But I suppose it depends on where you live and how much you know your child knows already.
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