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Torn about piercing baby's ears
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amother




Dodgerblue


Post  Wed, Dec 19 2018, 12:55 pm
amother wrote:
Omg some of you make it sound like we're butchering our babies by piercing their ears. We can comfortably assume that 99% of girls will want their ears pierced and will be happy that it was done when they where a baby.


Some simple math: if around 80% of women have their ears pierced and 10-20% don’t, one needs to assume that at least 10% and possibly up to 20% DON’T want their ears pierced! Not sure where the 99% comes from.

You can buy clip-on earrings too. I used to wear those in the 80s.
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amother




Dodgerblue


Post  Wed, Dec 19 2018, 12:59 pm
amother wrote:
I have pierced ears and I love wearing earrings but I would never pierce a baby's ears. I got my ears pierced at age 10 by choice and I wasn't traumatized. At that age I was able to take care of the hygiene myself and it was enough before my bat mitzvah that I was able to wear more sophisticated earrings by then.

My oldest daughter is currently 10 and I offered to take her to get her ears pierced but she has absolutely no interest. The only "jewelry" she wears regularly is a watch, more for practical reasons then for adornment. She's more of a sporty kid then a girly girl and I would never force her to put holes in her body for the sake of beauty. If she changes her mind when she's older then I will happily take her. My next daughter is still young but she's far more into dress up and I think she'll want to get her ears pierced. That's fine with me as long as she's old enough to take care of them herself so I won't even offer for a few more years.

I really don't understand the point of view that a baby isn't really a girl until she has her ears pierced. If that were the case then girls would be born with holes in their ears. I think all jewelry on babies just looks silly and I think it's more a reflection on the mothers who seem to treat them like dolls. I'm far more interested that my babies wear comfortable clothing than stylish. I don't go for huge headbands bigger than girl's heads either.


Your post is one of few that has sound reasoning in it...

I didn’t know the bolded was a thing!? Does this mean I am not yet a girl because I choose not to put holes in my ears? 🤔
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amother




Periwinkle


Post  Wed, Dec 19 2018, 1:04 pm
amother wrote:
I totally agree with SuperWify on this. I believe those saying about changes to the body and it’s messages are way overthinking it. Earrings are so normal.

My mother made me wait until I was bas mitzvah. The pain was negligible but I was always embarrassed and felt like a baby that I was the only one of my friends without earrings. I felt really silly in my tiny baby sized earrings at 12 years old. I was embarrassed by the comments. They felt condescending.

I pierced my daughter’s ears at 5 months. I have absolutely no regrets. She cried for a few seconds and that was it. She looks dainty and adorable.

Anonymous because I’m very outspoken about this.


I could have written this, word for word. I would have added the unpleasantness of dealing with infections. My girls, whom I had pierced as babies, never had infections or any issues, bh.

Eta. And yes, the reason my mother was against it was because she did not like the idea of "maiming" a child's body, and I should make the decision myself when I'm old enough to decide for myself, at 12.
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amother




Periwinkle


Post  Wed, Dec 19 2018, 1:08 pm
amother wrote:
Some simple math: if around 80% of women have their ears pierced and 10-20% don’t, one needs to assume that at least 10% and possibly up to 20% DON’T want their ears pierced! Not sure where the 99% comes from.

You can buy clip-on earrings too. I used to wear those in the 80s.


Or....They wish they could wear earrings, they wish they'd had it done when they were too young to remember, but at this age they're too afraid to go through the whole process.

I also wore clip-ons in the 80's, when I was about 7. They KILLED. I remember sitting in class and willing myself to endure the pain and keep them on, because I so desperately wanted earrings.

Regular earrings should not hurt at all, after the initial piercing.
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mommyla




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Dec 19 2018, 1:24 pm
99% is probably pretty accurate in many frum communities, especially Chasidish communities. My daughter begged for earrings at age 4 because literally every single girl in her class had them already. I would’ve been happy to wait a couple more years if she hadn’t asked, but she wanted them so badly that I pierced them for her birthday.

I got mine pierced as a reward for something in early elementary school and I remember it fondly, I think it was a good age. I don’t like earrings on babies at all (I also don’t like bracelets for babies!) - like Sky said, I think it detracts from their purity (and I also worry about pulling the earlobes, plus sometimes it can be hard to get the hole in a good spot when their lobes are so tiny).

So basically, not a fan of earrings, but I don’t get the vehemence. Nobody’s telling you to do it! (And if they are telling you, or they believe that girls are somehow incomplete without earrings, then they clearly have issues.)
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Chayalle




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Dec 19 2018, 1:37 pm
simcha2 wrote:
They're all reasonable reasons. I personally think that teaching and showing my daughter that she had bodily autonomy, and she is beautiful just as Hashem made her override those reasons. You don't have to make the same calculation, but I think denying that those are also valid considerations "because everyone does it, she'll probably want and it's cute" is not logical.


guzenterheit. Glad it works for you. I don't personally feel that my girls lost out on these lessons of bodily autonomy, or that Hashem made them beautiful as they are (I find other ways to teach them this, and also, to beautify themselves - hair, etc..when they are young, makeup when they get older) but if these are important to you, then that's great - it's your job as a mother to impart to your daughters that which you consider your values, and important to you. You don't need to do what "everyone" does, that's fine, I find other areas to teach them this.
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tichellady




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Dec 19 2018, 1:53 pm
I hear both sides of the argument but op, I think if you feel torn about it, then don’t do it
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SixOfWands




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Dec 19 2018, 1:56 pm
amother wrote:
Or....They wish they could wear earrings, they wish they'd had it done when they were too young to remember, but at this age they're too afraid to go through the whole process.

I also wore clip-ons in the 80's, when I was about 7. They KILLED. I remember sitting in class and willing myself to endure the pain and keep them on, because I so desperately wanted earrings.

Regular earrings should not hurt at all, after the initial piercing.


So the reasoning is that ear piercing is a very painful and scary experience. (I don't think it is, BTW, and all of my piercings were done as an adult.) So we should have our babies undergo the painful and scary experience, which they won't understand, because ...

Because why?
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amother




Dodgerblue


Post  Wed, Dec 19 2018, 1:57 pm
amother wrote:
Or....They wish they could wear earrings, they wish they'd had it done when they were too young to remember, but at this age they're too afraid to go through the whole process.

I also wore clip-ons in the 80's, when I was about 7. They KILLED. I remember sitting in class and willing myself to endure the pain and keep them on, because I so desperately wanted earrings.

Regular earrings should not hurt at all, after the initial piercing.


You were obviously not wearing decent clip-ons. Some of them hurt but most didn’t.

I have no desire to get my ears pierced now and I know it isn’t painful as I have been with others when they have had theirs done. Out of the people I know who don’t have pierced ears, none of them are afraid, they just choose not to have them done. Yes, some of us make choices vs following everybody else’s trends like sheep.
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amother




Wine


Post  Wed, Dec 19 2018, 2:03 pm
Jewish girls and women require adornments. Discuss.
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Chayalle




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Dec 19 2018, 2:12 pm
amother wrote:
Jewish girls and women require adornments. Discuss.


There's plenty of support for this concept, going all the way back to the days of the Avos/Imahos. Rivka was sent jewelry, and Yaakov felt bad that he had nothing to give Rachel because Esav/Elifaz had stolen it.

In the days of Ezra and Nechemia, one of the takanos they did was to ensure that cosmetics were sold and available to Jewish women so that they could adorn/beautify themselves.

In the days of old, a Kallah was engaged for 24 months, during which she received gifts with which to adorn herself.

ETA: in a kesubah, a husband takes upon himself to provide his wife with normal adornments, etc..
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gamanit




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Dec 19 2018, 2:20 pm
SixOfWands wrote:
So the reasoning is that ear piercing is a very painful and scary experience. (I don't think it is, BTW, and all of my piercings were done as an adult.) So we should have our babies undergo the painful and scary experience, which they won't understand, because ...

Because why?


Babies don't have the fear because they don't understand. It lasts two seconds and then they either nurse or get a bottle. We do many many things that have long term ramifications for our children. People even give their kids plastic surgery so their ears shouldn't stick out as much. Personally I probably would have been glad had my parents gotten that done for me. At this point I wouldn't do it since my sheitel anyhow covers them.

I got my ears pierced at three weeks old and my daughters were pierced when she was two weeks old. The person who did it is extremely experienced and she didn't even cry until the second ear at which point I calmed her down. She was too little to pull at them and by the time she was old enough to she was so used to them that she didn't. For the last while she hasn't been wearing earrings (for no reason) and she keeps asking me to get her new ones. You don't notice these tiny holes from a normal distance. Her holes did not close up but I probably will get her new earrings before they do.
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Raisin




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Dec 19 2018, 2:22 pm
I think baby girls with earrings look odd so I never did it. I guess also I live in a place where people do not routinely do it either.

I hear what people are saying about it being easier when its done as a baby. I did it at 12 and they closed up and needed re piercing. My daughters had it done when they asked for it. For some reason one of them has had endless trouble and infections...but I am not sure if having it done earlier would have helped.
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amother




Turquoise


Post  Wed, Dec 19 2018, 3:27 pm
amother wrote:
Amother turquoise, I didnt say women are required to wear earrings. But there's a reason majority women in the world wear earrings, let's not kid ourselves. Every women looks better with earrings on. Do you really go to weddings and simchos without earrings?


Umm yes totally. I also don’t think that women look better with earrings on either ,how do earrings change my features?
My late mil lived 80 years without ever having earrings & trust me that no one ever noticed or said “she’d look lovely with earrings on”.
I think you’re the one kidding yourself.
You didn’t answer me re nose ring...
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flowerpower




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Dec 19 2018, 3:37 pm
simcha2 wrote:
They're all reasonable reasons. I personally think that teaching and showing my daughter that she had bodily autonomy, and she is beautiful just as Hashem made her override those reasons. You don't have to make the same calculation, but I think denying that those are also valid considerations "because everyone does it, she'll probably want and it's cute" is not logical.


My kids make no connection that they need earrings to enhance their beauty. They are more than thrilled to choose new earrings when needed the same way they buy any other piece of jewelry or hair accessory.
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flowerpower




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Dec 19 2018, 3:42 pm
SixOfWands wrote:
So the reasoning is that ear piercing is a very painful and scary experience. (I don't think it is, BTW, and all of my piercings were done as an adult.) So we should have our babies undergo the painful and scary experience, which they won't understand, because ...

Because why?


At that age it’s not painful nor scary. I have a few girls kah. They all slept through it( maybe they woke for one second). They also never had an issue with their hole since.


We have this discussion here many times. Basically it’s culteral. Either you get it done as an infant or wait until the kid is “old enough to ask permission for it and appreciate it”. Opinions won’t change.
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amother




Dodgerblue


Post  Wed, Dec 19 2018, 3:51 pm
Chayalle wrote:
There's plenty of support for this concept, going all the way back to the days of the Avos/Imahos. Rivka was sent jewelry, and Yaakov felt bad that he had nothing to give Rachel because Esav/Elifaz had stolen it.

In the days of Ezra and Nechemia, one of the takanos they did was to ensure that cosmetics were sold and available to Jewish women so that they could adorn/beautify themselves.

In the days of old, a Kallah was engaged for 24 months, during which she received gifts with which to adorn herself.

ETA: in a kesubah, a husband takes upon himself to provide his wife with normal adornments, etc..


A “normal adornment” is a wedding ring. The rest IMHO is totally unnecessary.
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amother




Slategray


Post  Wed, Dec 19 2018, 3:57 pm
SixOfWands wrote:
(1) Earrings do scar for life. I have 3 holes in each ear. I allowed the 3rd hole to close decades ago; its still clearly visible. There's also a risk of keloids.



From my online research, keloids have more of a chance of developing if piercing is done after around age 11. My dd had something like this and is upset she didn't get it done as a baby.
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amother




Wine


Post  Wed, Dec 19 2018, 3:57 pm
flowerpower wrote:
At that age it’s not painful nor scary. I have a few girls kah. They all slept through it( maybe they woke for one second). They also never had an issue with their hole since.


We have this discussion here many times. Basically it’s culteral. Either you get it done as an infant or wait until the kid is “old enough to ask permission for it and appreciate it”. Opinions won’t change.


Opinions won't change - but even in this conversation - OP was made aware of a factor that she never even considered - that 'child will want earrings' isn't a forgone conclusion. It doesn't mean that choice will change - but it opens eyes a bit.

Sometimes nice to reevaluate what we take as 'a given truth'.
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amother




Seashell


Post  Wed, Dec 19 2018, 4:10 pm
amother wrote:
I just had my first girl after many boys and am really enjoying dressing her up in pretty pink girly clothing and bracelets. I always thought that if I would have a girl, I would pierce her ears from the start. Now that she's here, I'm having a hard time with the thought of electively inflicting pain upon her just for my enjoyment. I'm not the type who struggles with my babies getting blood tests or vaccines since I know they're for their own benefit and the pain is short lived, but with ear piercing, even though the pain is just as short, it's totally unnecessary and really just for my own fun.

Recently I was discussing this with a teenage girl relative, and she made a point which made me think again. She said that she has a few friends who never pierced their ears and really want to but are too afraid of the pain. They wish their parents would have had it done to them when they were babies and too young to be afraid. She thinks I would actually be doing her a chessed by getting them pierced when she's still this young. She also said that it hurts much less on tiny babies.

I would love to hear opinions on this.


I had my ears pierced when I was 16 years old and it was really painful.
I pierced my babies ears when they were 5 weeks old and they cried for literally a few seconds and then it was all over.

I definitely recommend to do so when they are little as the ear is much softer and heals faster too and the pain is very very minimal.
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