Not paying full tuition but have new cars-lavish lifestyle

amother

Firebrick

Mon, Dec 31 2018, 8:13 pm

amother wrote:

The fact they don't have to pay for pesach expenses should mean they have more money available for tuition.

And why shouldn't grand parents be able to financial plan to avoid paying tuition? It is not the grandparents' obligation. It's the same as tax planning. They aren't similar to the games to maximize government benefits in that they are legal.

I personally think its unethical - but I'm talking about situations where there is generational businesses - where the second generation is paid less then market wage to keep tuition lower.

I have no issue with tax planning.

I don't think grandparents should be strong armed into paying tuition.

I just don't think finances should be arranged to avoid it - as tempting as it is.

southernbubby

Mon, Dec 31 2018, 8:15 pm

amother wrote:

The problem, which has been stated numerous times before, is that luxuries have become necessities in the frum community.
What would wealthy grandparents do if their grandchildren would be forced to attend public school due to lack of funds? Would they just sit there and do nothing?

southernbubby

Mon, Dec 31 2018, 8:17 pm

amother wrote:

I personally think its unethical - but I'm talking about situations where there is generational businesses - where the second generation is paid less then market wage to keep tuition lower.

I wish that a yeshiva administrator would log on here. Oh boy!

southernbubby

Mon, Dec 31 2018, 8:24 pm

amother wrote:

It's not the money, as mentioned earlier, it's the principle. After all, the big family Pesach getaway might be cheaper than Pesach at home. If your grandchildren are getting tuition discounts, don't you feel an obligation to prioritize that over giving your children presents they don't need? Give them a nice card and donate the rest to the school.

(Yes, I am being sarcastic. I believe tuition should be a set amount and nobody should meddle unless they suspect actual subterfuge.)

These getaways can be cheaper if you don't have to pay for airfare and buy lots more clothes for the trip. It also depends on the ages of the kids.
Probably also depends on the destination and venue because some are more upscale than others and some are just lousy.
Most people could probably do it cheaper at home.

amother

Cerise

Mon, Dec 31 2018, 8:24 pm

southernbubby wrote:

Again, the subject is luxuries not resource rooms or cleaning help.
The resource room exists in case your child would need it so it is there for you too.
Probably the kids in nicer homes also pay full tuition.
Nobody said that scholarship families don't work or pay tuition.

Yes, but you wrote:

Don't you think that when one parent's entire salary goes for tuition that they have a right to complain?

I'm reminding you that this is true for many families, whether or not they pay full tuition or get a discount. Let's all line up with our complaints.

amother

Babyblue

Mon, Dec 31 2018, 8:30 pm

amother wrote:

My entire salary also goes to tuition. News flash, scholarship parents aren't sitting on the couch eating strawberries and cream all day. They go to work, make money, and hand it over to the school. It just happens on a smaller scale (not to be confused with "they don't work as hard for their money").

I'm thinking I should probably complain that some of my tuition dollars are going to pay for resource room teachers. My kids don't use the resource room. Why should I pay a premium for the kids who need it? Most of those kids live in a much nicer home than I do. It's not fair.

Resource room teachers are usually paid for by the government.

amother

Babyblue

Mon, Dec 31 2018, 8:39 pm

amother wrote:

But that would be part of my planning. The income and principal from my estate will be tied up so that it can't be used for my grandchildren's tuition. I paid full tuitions and then some for my kids. I am done when they graduate.

If the second generation is not receiving income but eventually benefiting from the increase in value of the business, that's perfectly legal. If it's cash under the table, then it is not kosher.

amother

Babyblue

Mon, Dec 31 2018, 8:45 pm

southernbubby wrote:

I think it would depend on the school system. I grew up in a town with a large Jewish population. The schools were superior, and they were safe. The frum kids found each other. If I had such an option for my own kids, I would have been ok sending them to such a school. DH probably would not have been ok.

The alternative to private schools where I live is dangerous schools and a student body that doesn't share my family's values.

southernbubby

Mon, Dec 31 2018, 8:56 pm

amother wrote:

If someone is on scholarship they are complaining about someone's Pesach hotel?

amother

Firebrick

Mon, Dec 31 2018, 8:58 pm

amother wrote:

Ethical vs Legal.

There are lots of scenarios.

The situation where there is planning to avoid tuition bothers me.

Nobody should be paying any more tax then they are legally obligated to. Tuition isn't tax. IMHO there is nothing to be proud of to avoid paying it - there is a moral obligation (again IMHO) when it comes to Yeshiva tuition, that isn't there for tax.

southernbubby

Mon, Dec 31 2018, 8:58 pm

amother wrote:

Perhaps I am one?

So I guess that you don't deal with parents who complain or cheat on tuition.

amother

Cerise

Mon, Dec 31 2018, 8:58 pm

southernbubby wrote:

If someone is on scholarship they are complaining about someone's Pesach hotel?

Why not? As you said, my kids will feel deprived when it's spoken about in school. I work full time and my entire salary goes to tuition. Aren't I entitled to complain too?

amother

Tangerine

Mon, Dec 31 2018, 9:02 pm

If the full-tuition payers wouldn't have so many expectations of the school, tuition could be much lower and I'd be able to afford full tuition too. Bigger classes, smaller facilities, less administrative staff, older textbooks, etc. It's their fault I have to pay so much.

amother

Plum

Mon, Dec 31 2018, 9:05 pm

There seem to be two basic perspectives underlying here.

1. My tuition is a fair amount agreed with the school and any shortfall is made up by the school's tzedakah fundraising - nobody else's business

2. Tuition is assessed by dividing up the costs between the parent body - if someone else pays less, I pay more - I have a right to know re others (whose tuition I am effectively paying)

amother

Firebrick

Mon, Dec 31 2018, 9:06 pm

amother wrote:

There is some fabled school that one of the ima here sends to where everybody pays full - and everything is amazing.

I suppose that leaves everyone else to go to cheaper school with less.

amother

Firebrick

Mon, Dec 31 2018, 9:14 pm

amother wrote:

3) I have to the right to feel assured that the people who are paying less then me are being vetted - but not know who those people are - if the baseline tuition formula is based on an assumption that not everyone will pay full.

It would be nice if it was projected expenses / projected enrollment = tuition. Scholarship fund from donations/federation to top up parents who can't pay full.

amother

Copper

Mon, Dec 31 2018, 9:17 pm

Well, I was a teacher many years ago.....I got paid minimal wages, worked around the clock, created a teaching model which all followed there, I know that school got tons of govt help, they still charged tuition for a free program, were stingy w supplies, that means they didn't spend the money they got for supplies that needed to be bought with it. So where did all the money go? Not to the teachers, savings didn't get handed down to the students & not to the supplies? Someone must've pocketed the money then.

amother

Plum

Mon, Dec 31 2018, 9:20 pm

amother wrote:

If you worked at a school that issued bouncy checks, it went on bank fees. I worked for a school (not for long!!!) that paid over 100k in bank fees in one year due to bounced check fees

southernbubby

Mon, Dec 31 2018, 9:22 pm

amother wrote:

Why not? As you said, my kids will feel deprived when it's spoken about in school. I work full time and my entire salary goes to tuition. Aren't I entitled to complain too?

Yes you are