Faith against faith

amother

Ruby

Wed, Jan 02 2019, 11:45 am

Amarante wrote:

Do you run the room? I ask because it is very likely that the room's organizers are fine with staff eating the food. Many people bring hospital workers food or other small gifts to thank them for their service. If this is not the intention of the group running the room, it would be up to them to take steps to ensure there is enough food for those who need the kosher food and aren't just being shnorrers.

As for the store, you can't run a public business and exclude people based on ethnicity or religion or nationality etc. That is the most basic aspect of the Civil Rights Act which was really intended to make sure that stores, theaters, restaurants etc. did not refuse service to people. The exception for religious beliefs is very narrow - it has to be related to the specific religious holdings. For example, a Catholic hospital that serves the public can't refuse to hire non-Catholic doctors or nurses but a Catholic school could only hire Catholics to teach religion. The exemption for the baker was very narrow and would not permit him to refuse to sell cakes to anyone but a Mormon or a Pentecostal which is what this store was attempting to enforce.

I don't run bikur cholim, but I don't believe the people are aware of how much food is not going to kosher people. If I was not so sick, I wouldn't need to be at the hospital so much and wouldn't know that it's not a couple of danishes. There are times when Jews didn't have because the staff was eating there.

Why aren't all bikur cholim rooms open to staff if that's such a great idea?

Amarante

Wed, Jan 02 2019, 11:53 am

amother wrote:

If there is an issue of not being enough food for those who need, I would speak to the organizers to alert them of the issue. It would then be their choice to maintain the status quo; lock the room to all but frum Jews or bring in additional food so that the staff or others might be fed without depriving frum patients and caretakers.

Fox

Wed, Jan 02 2019, 12:15 pm

Simple1 wrote:

To be DLKZ, this is likely a store worker who used poor judgement when caught off guard -and it's not necessarily store policy. I would guess that they should not exclude people, just as Hatazalah has to service everyone as well.

This sounds like another "perfect storm" that shows just how hard chesed can be -- and how successful chesed brings complex trade-offs.

I don't know the specifics of this store, but I've seen similar dynamics play out:

* The organizers likely started in a basement or private space and had a way of vetting the people who "shopped."

* The people for whom the service was designed felt a stigma associated with calling, being checked out, and finally being given an appointment.

* The organizers wanted to remove the stigma as much as possible as well as foster the idea that members of the community, even if not strictly impoverished, should attempt to minimize expenditures by recycling within the community. One woman's trash is another woman's treasure and all that.

* So to make it more like a respectable store as well as give people back their basements, a local property owner is induced to give them a vacant storefront at a bargain price, and they move in.

* Slowly, they upgrade the organization of the store and volunteers even use their talents to create some nice-ish window displays, never realizing that these upgrades will attract others.

* Since the store is essentially still a chesed operation, it relies on volunteers or individuals working just a few hours a week for a minimal wage. Standards for employment are not high; even in for-profit retail, the low unemployment rate makes it tough to attract good workers.

* Mrs. Ploni, a once-a-week volunteer, is instructed, "If non-Jews come in, be polite, but don't encourage them."

* Except Mrs. Ploni, who is a bit brusque at best and sometimes a bit socially clueless, interprets that instruction as, "Don't yell at them." So she thinks she was being entirely appropriate.

And, voila! Now we have a chillul Hashem and possible civil rights violation.

Any solution to this scenario is going to embarrass someone; hurt someone's feelings; or undermine the mission of the whole chesed organization. The only thing to do is seek out this customer, apologize until blue in the face, and give her a generous gift certificate as a show of goodwill.

watergirl

Wed, Jan 02 2019, 12:21 pm

Amarante wrote:

I think locking the room is an issue in some hospitals, not all allow it and require it be open to anyone.

watergirl

Wed, Jan 02 2019, 12:49 pm

amother wrote:

Isnt it possible that the staff are jewish people who keep kosher also?

imasoftov

Wed, Jan 02 2019, 1:59 pm

Well I can see why they keep the Gemaras locked up. Here's Gittin 61a (and this is also for the bikur cholim rooms)

אין ממחין ביד עניי נכרים בלקט בשכחה ובפאה מפני דרכי שלום: ת"ר מפרנסים עניי נכרים עם עניי ישראל ומבקרין חולי נכרים עם חולי ישראל וקוברין מתי נכרים עם מתי ישראל מפני דרכי שלום

The mishna teaches: One does not protest against poor gentiles who come to take gleanings, forgotten sheaves, and the produce in the corner of the field, which is given to the poor, on account of the ways of peace. Similarly, the Sages taught in a baraita (Tosefta 5:4): One sustains poor gentiles along with poor Jews, and one visits sick gentiles along with sick Jews, and one buries dead gentiles along with dead Jews. All this is done on account of the ways of peace, to foster peaceful relations between Jews and gentiles.