Dear Teachers, I don't have a square to spare!

mha3484

Thu, Jan 03 2019, 1:21 pm

My son is in second grade and the rebbe sends home one sheet to do each night. He specifically told the parents at the back to school night that if it takes more then 10 minutes to please call him and talk about it so it can be changed. He tries to vary the skills so some times its kriah, some times its kesiva, he keeps it light which is nice. I also LOVE that he emails it to all the parents so if the kid looses the sheet he can still do it.

My sons first grade english teacher had a great system that I wish everyone would use. Each monday she sent home a packet of sheets and you gave it in the following Monday. Based on your kid you as the MOTHER could decide when to do the homework. There were weeks my son wanted to get it all over with on Monday and others where he did a page a night. Also a few weeks of saving it all for Sunday and regretting it lol.

Ema of 5

Thu, Jan 03 2019, 2:00 pm

amother wrote:

There are prods and cons to everything. As a parent I can understand the struggle /hardship of hw.I go through it too, especially with my child who has a lot of trouble concentrating after an entire day in school. Yes, its hard hw is like hw for the parents especially if that child needs help.

But, someone here said let the teachers review in school. As a teacher, we already have less time than public school kids have to teach the same curriculum. So, as ppl said here in a different thread that the parents want a good secular education and since there is already very little time, review in certain subjects like reading every night and practicing math is very important.

If kids dont do hw, reports, study for tests, how will they learn this responsibility for college?? In addition, if someone says that they are not going to college, well some kids even with the best teachers need that time to get individual help from parents while doing hw because with large classes, some kids need more individual help to understand.

The goal of hw, tests, reports...is to see how the students perform without the teacher there and when there's some Break from wen they just learned. There is not enough Time to practice and review everything especially with big classes and kids who need more help.

I hate my kids having hw because its hw for me too. But, I see the benefits of review and it helps me see what my children need help with, so I can explain things individually to help my child. Reading, math, and writing are especially important to practice to build the proper skills for the future.

I didn’t see anyone here saying no tests or other assignments. But studying or writing a book report or a research paper is different than nightly homework.

groisamomma

Thu, Jan 03 2019, 2:50 pm

mha3484 wrote:

For many students, even brighter ones, this is awful practice. The packet doesn't get evaluated until the week after it is taught--which results in a loss of valuable time (days, even) during which the child could have gotten immediate help and not fallen further behind.

imasinger

Thu, Jan 03 2019, 2:58 pm

amother wrote:

imasinger-starting at what age?

Not that anyone of importance is going to listen to my ideas, but I was thinking, with the smaller number being the goal most nights:

First and second grade - 10-15 minutes a night TOTAL (not per subject), plus 10 minutes of free reading.

Third and fourth, 10-20 min total, plus studying for tests, and an occasional class project that may take some extra home time, maximum 2 hours total for a big project.

Fifth and sixth, 20-40 minutes total, plus occasional projects.

Middle school, maximum 20-45 minutes PER WEEK for each subject, including written work and projects.

High school, 30-60 minutes per week for each subject, with occasional more time consuming projects.

In upper grades, time in school for those who prefer to get their work done at school (around lunch, X block/study hall).

I hear you about other ways of teaching responsibility, but not every parent will opt for that, and by high school, kids really should know how to work.

JMO.

amother

Cyan

Thu, Jan 03 2019, 3:09 pm

smileforamile wrote:

Same! As a math teacher in public school, I've seen that giving math homework is fruitless, since the students just use Photo Math to do their homework. I mostly stopped giving homework, and I had parents complain.

I think it was on Google News where I saw about the 6-year-old who was using Alexa to do his math homework...

My nine year old has tried that, but I put a stop to it immediately. I let him use Alexa to check his work, but he doesn't believe in checking his work Can't Believe It

keym

Thu, Jan 03 2019, 3:18 pm

My issue with homework is the busywork, the excessive shlepping of books, and the insane cumulitiveness.
There is no reason for 20 math problems. 5 is more than sufficient to determine they know the material.
The best teacher sent home the workbooks the first day of school. Every day, child did assignment, tore it out, and brought it back.
And I get that many subjects (math, spelling, yedios klallios) are cumulative, but it is unfair that I have to test my 8 year old on all the times tables EVERY NIGHT. If you're learning the 7 tables this week, then either it should be 10 minutes of flash card, then stop, or one day review 7and 3, then 7 and 4 etc.

One of my kids had a beautiful yedios klallios program in 5th grade. A weekly sheet with Jewish facts. Except every wed the homework was to study (be tested) on all the sheets.
Yes the kid knew the information, but I had to test 25 pages worth three weeks before Pesach.

FranticFrummie

Thu, Jan 03 2019, 3:20 pm

I feel that for the majority of students who are academically minded, a moderate amount of homework is reasonable.

The problem starts when you have any kid who doesn't fit that description for any reason whatsoever. The schools are so rigid and one size fits all, that it creates nothing but frustration and misery for those who don't fit.

For example, take a child who had PPD/NOS, and non verbal learning disabilities. Functional enough to not qualify for special ed, so the child ends up mainstreamed and expected to keep up. That would be my daughter.

"5 to 15 minutes of homework", or a single page, ends up being a 2 hour fight. I beg, plead, bribe, threaten, and end up in tears. DD yells "See, I told you I was too stupid to figure this out!" It's Common Core math, so I have no idea what they want, or how to help her. She goes to her room angry and hating me, and cries herself to sleep in her clothes. Nobody has learned anything, and the resistance to learned has been instilled just that much further.

The following year, she announces that she loves her new teacher. There is no homework, and everything is done in class. She's happy, I'm happy, everything is great - until I clean for Pesach. I look behind her dresser and find almost a year's worth of math sheets. The school never let me know that she wasn't turning in her homework. Her grades are a bit lower because the homework wasn't turned in, but nobody bothered to tell me.

So, we try to do the homework again. I don't understand it, she doesn't understand it. I send it back to school blank, with a note written across the top saying "We do not understand these concepts. Please explain slowly and clearly." (it's in her IEP) Nothing gets taught.

I decide that she's never going to be a math genius, and we live in a modern world, so I decide to teach her the core concepts of math, and teach her calculator skills. She starts getting all of her homework right, but then the teacher sends me a note home that DD needs to do it all out of her head and show her work. (How is that ever useful in life?)

Yes, I'm bitter about this. School expectations and demands have ruined my smart, creative, motivated child, and made her into an anxious wreck who self harms when faced with tests.

B'H, she'll soon be attending a public charter school with small classes and lots of tutors, where she will learn at her ability level, not grade level. Just because she can read at a college level, doesn't mean that she has college level math, spelling, and composition skills.

Oh, and they never, EVER, give homework. The school has a 95% graduation rate, and that's with special needs and at risk kids.

/rant

amother

Firebrick

Thu, Jan 03 2019, 8:44 pm

amother wrote:

That is because the curriculum is built on the assumption that they will be reviewing at home daily. It does not need to be that way. Teachers could introduce a concept and then practice it later in the day. They could do "homework" for the last 15 minutes of class time. What would be the educational difference between doing the review at 4:30 with the class or at 5:00 with Mommy (and 3 screaming toddlers/babies as a musical background)?!

Parents unite! Take back the night!

um the difference is that mommy is hopefully doing it one on one with child and catching any mistakes, specific issues that are unique to her child alone, reinforcing etc.. while a teacher cannot practice with every single child one on one every day. at the end of the day a child learns best one on one. Even if a teacher makes small groups it is still very easy to overlook a child, or not pick up on a specific issue a child is struggling with. HW is meant for individual practice of skills for younger children, while for older children it is meant to foster independent study and learning skills.
all in moderation of course, no child should be doing HW for 3 hours a night...

amother

Firebrick

Thu, Jan 03 2019, 8:56 pm

by the way I wonder if hours and hours of HW for high school age kids can possibly be a good thing?- as it keeps the kids out of trouble. Im just musing here... but imagine your teenager had more free time- what would they do with it? Good kids might pick up a hobby, but average kids might pick up trouble.. I know a few high school age kids that would def go look for trouble if not for the fact that they are swamped each night with HW.
and no dont tell me they would have more time to help around the house trust me your teen isnt going to do that every night.

amother

Aquamarine

Thu, Jan 03 2019, 8:56 pm

amother wrote:

Agree with this.. Teachers rarely have time to evaluate one on one in a serious level. Yes, I have a general idea of who is struggling during the month before a test but a mother reviewing the material individually for 5-10 minutes will be able to help explain things clearer and help more than a teacher who has the rest of the class bored and acting up while you explain something again.

amother

Violet

Thu, Jan 03 2019, 9:02 pm

amother wrote:

Please explain. If each kid is sitting at their desk and doing their "homework" for the last 15 min of the day (because that's all it takes, right, just 15 minutes) why can't the teacher collect the papers, see who is not getting it, and review the next day?

Ema of 5

Thu, Jan 03 2019, 9:35 pm

amother wrote:

A teacher should see that a student is struggeling from class work.

*having a hard time with worksheets
*taking a long time to complete work that should be done quickly
* only participating (and minimally) in discussions when specifically called on
* having a hard time completing class work.

If a teacher sees any of that, they should immediately call the parent so they can be on the same page, and the student can immediately get the help they need.

amother

Green

Thu, Jan 03 2019, 10:00 pm

amother wrote:

So I should spend 5-10 minutes with one of my kids on something they don't want to do while the rest of my kids are acting up and I'm trying to do the laundry and the dishes and the baths and supper and bedtime, instead of the teacher working out a system that works in a place with the principal as discipline backup, peer pressure, and being PAID to ensure the kids learn the material?

amother

Firebrick

Thu, Jan 03 2019, 10:18 pm

amother wrote:

How would that work with HW that needs listening to? Kriah?
Reading practice? Vowel practice?
If the HW is a worksheet that the child does and the teacher collects then why on earth are you- the mother "doing" that with them? If its just a worksheet they are anyway doing it on their own- the mother doesnt need to be involved so why the resentment?

amother

White

Fri, Jan 04 2019, 12:54 am

amother wrote:

Do you seriously believe this? My high school believed in this and it's nuts. I would skip off of the work sometimes because it was just too much for me. I do not believe in homework. I spent hours and hours doing schoolwork after coming home. I didn't have time for any hobbies. I was a bright girl and was being "kept busy" by my school. On top of that my mother needed my help around the house. As a teenager I was regularly going to sleep at 2:30 a.m. because of all that needed to get done.

Anyone looking for trouble will ditch the homework and find it. Let kids be. Encourage girls to do more chessed. Whenever I ask any relatives of mine who are still in high school if they can help me around the house they say they have too much homework. (no they're not trying to avoid helping; they genuinely have an awful lot of work) There's no need for girls to be squeezed so tight.

little neshamala

Fri, Jan 04 2019, 7:22 am

amother wrote:

My BY highschool clearly felt this way. Well guess what. BECAUSE of the insane amount of work many girls threw in the towel altogether and just hung out every night. They didnt get good grades. And in the end, it didnt realslfy matter, did it?
Stupid people like me tried to take it seriously and felt so pressred I cant even describe it. When I tell people how pleased I was as a newlywed when I finally mastered cooking chicken and soup, they ask "but didnt you help your mother make shabbos?"
OF COURSE I DIDNT HELP HER MAKE SHABBOS!! ARE YOU LIVING ON THIS PLANET?? I didnt help her with ANYTHING and she knew I wasnt trying to shirk helping, I just had an insane ammount of work to do every night.

sky

Fri, Jan 04 2019, 7:46 am

amother wrote:

Kriya, reading fluency, reading comprehension in younger grades, reading a Pasuk of Chumash. These are all really difficult things to gauge from desk work. (My kids school does pull out every child weekly for kriya and reading fluency but I think a parent should be on top of it).

I can’t even imagine what type of written work any student would have for homework that takes 15 minutes in elementary school. That’s just wrong.

Besides I’d personally be annoyed if my child was sitting at a desk for 15 minutes doing homework in school. Send him home 15 minutes earlier then. my kid would really hate it. Besides no one should be getting 15 minutes homework from one teacher. Work on whittling it down to 3 minutes at home rather than 15 minutes in school.

amother

Violet

Fri, Jan 04 2019, 9:01 am

amother wrote:

How would that work with HW that needs listening to? Kriah?
Reading practice? Vowel practice?

In school, out loud, one kid at a time is how we did it when I was a kid.

amother wrote:

If the HW is a worksheet that the child does and the teacher collects then why on earth are you- the mother "doing" that with them?

I am not doing it with them. I can't speak for others though.

amother wrote:

If its just a worksheet they are anyway doing it on their own- the mother doesnt need to be involved so why the resentment?

because it never takes just 15 min at home
because 5-8 is family time
because I want them to feel free and relaxed when they cross the threshold of our door, not anxious and beleaguered