What not to do at a shiva call

someone

Tue, Jan 08 2019, 12:21 pm

My mother died when I was nine. At the shivah someone (I have no idea who he was, I'm not sure I knew then either) told me that his mother also died when he was nine and his father died when he was twelve. I think the point of the story was that he has been through this and managed to carry on with life but it mamash freaked me out and until my 13th birthday I was convinced that my father (who b"H is still alive and well over 20 years later) would die as well when I was 12. I don't know if that is considered a dumb thing to say, he was just trying to be encouraging, but it is one of the only things I remember anyone saying at the shivah because it made such a deep impression on me.
In general I remember a lot of people saying they know just how I feel because they lost a parent at a young age etc etc. In my opinion that is one of the worst things to say to anyone, ever. No, you don't know how I'm feeling, just as I don't know how someone else who lost a parent is feeling, even if they were the same age as me and the parent died of the same illness. Everyone mourns differently.
Oh, and one of my teachers (not at the shivah, but not long after) gave us a whole spiel in class about how because children aren't punished for their sins their parents get the punishment... I came home crying that my mother died because of me. It took me years to get rid of that feeling of guilt that was instilled in me then. And its the only time I remember my very mild mannered father yelling at a teacher.

Ruchel

Tue, Jan 08 2019, 1:05 pm

My mom sat shiva in Israel and there was food. She said in Israel they do brachos for the niftar (she had never seen it).

In my country I haven't seen food out, except to give to avel or the avel's kids etc. I would NOT eat unless I was all day there/starting a migraine whatever

amother

Crimson

Tue, Jan 08 2019, 1:14 pm

For me personally Shiva was very hard as my mother passed away very suddenly, relatively young. I didn't process her death yet and I had so many people asking the how, what, when.

An honorary mention to the person who told me if only I'd be more modestly dressed my mother's neshama will have an aliyah....

Most people have been more than kind and I really appreciated the time they took to make the Shiva call. I really appreciated the ones who said nice things about my mother and didn't appreciate the ones who just tried to pump me for information on how she passed away.

I am the most appreciative of the people who followed up AFTER Shiva. After getting up from Shiva, people expect you to go on with life but it is then when we need you the most. A kind word goes a long way.

keym

Tue, Jan 08 2019, 2:17 pm

My father passed away when I was a teen.
Someone came to Shiva to lecture us kids that we weren't careful with kibbud av and that's why Hashem took him away ( kind of like how if we don't take care of belongings, they get confiscated). But don't worry, Hashem gave us a warning to be better about kibbud eim. That didn't give me nightmares.

A different Rebbitzen came to tell us to be sure to encourage our mother to remarry and not to be the ones to stand in her way. Yeah.

amother

Babypink

Tue, Jan 08 2019, 2:35 pm

Chayalle wrote:

Ugh. I can't wrap my brain around the thought process of people who would guilt-trip young people who lost a parent. Did they never hear that there's a Lav in the Torah to cause these children pain (and it's a pretty harsh Lav, too.)

I think they are trying to say something meaningful (see my post about my younger daughter's teacher on page 1 of this thread).

I think they should shut up.

After the incident with my dd''s teacher I actually created a separate shiva room for my children. Of course, my kids were allowed to come sit with me any time, but I wanted a space, supervised by a young cousin who had instructions to keep an eye and ear on what people were saying, and feel very free to politely say "shprinzie needs a break now," if someone was saying something bad for them.

amother

Aquamarine

Tue, Jan 08 2019, 2:35 pm

These might be my own pet peeves and as others said YMMV:

It irked me when people came to be menachem avel crying. You’re supposed to be comforting me, I do not currently have the emotional strength or obligation to comfort you.

Please don’t say- you should have told me your relative was sick. I might have had resources for you. A. My relative had a doctor. We didn’t need to consult you. B. My relative is currently dead and will remain so for the foreseeable future. There is no point to your comment.

Also people who did drive by being menachem avel in the supermarket in front of the entire universe (after I got up from shiva) made me really uncomfortable.

Also, I lost a parent at a young age. NEVER go up to a young child in shul and tell them they should be saying yizkor. That is not for you to decide!!!!

amother

Aquamarine

Tue, Jan 08 2019, 2:38 pm

keym wrote:

You have scarred me for life. What is the matter with people?

keym

Tue, Jan 08 2019, 2:38 pm

Chayalle wrote:

There tends to be a lot of rationalization that its for the kids chinuch. (Incidently, halacha allows hitting an orphan for chinuch like a rebbi).
Also, they think its OK because they are protecting the almona....

amother

Aquamarine

Tue, Jan 08 2019, 2:40 pm

Ruchel wrote:

My Rav said no one eats in the shiva house except the aveilim and the other people staying in the house. We were also told no food could be taken out of the house once it was there, so we kept it by a neighbor.

amother

Babypink

Tue, Jan 08 2019, 2:47 pm

amother wrote:

YES!

In order:

Person grabbing my older dd and crying hysterically for 10 minutes when she lost her daddy and you lost your 2nd cousin by marriage.

People (this was a popular one) asking if I called Shukie Berman or why I called 911 rather than Hatzala. Apparently if I had, my husband would be alive.

Person in coffee place running up to me on line and crying bc she just found out.

People second guessing my decision as a mother re yizkor.

Bottom line, people, the less said the better.

amother

Babypink

Tue, Jan 08 2019, 2:49 pm

keym wrote:

Speaking as "the almona," the best way you can protect me is to leave my children alone."

imokay

Tue, Jan 08 2019, 3:06 pm

Some of these comments are literally almost unbelievable.
But I just want to say that everyone who came, came because they cared. Most people are not malicious and even if what they say/did came across as such, I am sure that wasn't their intentions. Everyone seems quick to condemn but we all make mistakes and say stupid things, especially when under uncomfortable circumstances. Appreciate the intent.
And what people appreciate /dislike is so individual.
I appreciated each person who came, even people I hadn't seen in a while; I felt loved and cared for.
I appreciated the food people sent, even if it was unneeded. I felt remembered.
I appreciated people's silence as well as their stories.
I appreciated the ones who came who I didn't know but who had knew my mother; I felt happy that my mother was remembered and had made an impact and impression on their lives.
If a story or conversation wasn't to my taste, I appreciated their company.
I didn't mind the people who cried hysterically; I was impressed that they displayed so much emotion for my mother.
That guy who came in just to take food and use the restroom, well, I appreciated that even in her death, my mother's house was still one of hessed.
I silently laughed at the real estate broker and thought that my mom would have appreciated her business tenacity.

My advice for people going to be menachem avel is that you can't anticipate the reaction of others. You can only do, to your best of ability, your best, so do/say what you think is right and trust that the ones sitting shiva will receive it in the spirit that is intended.

dankbar

Tue, Jan 08 2019, 5:13 pm

amother wrote:

I know the same thing. When my grandma was nifter, all food was kept upstairs by my aunt. Once it's in shiva house, it can't be taken out & eaten by others.

amother

Ruby

Tue, Jan 08 2019, 8:10 pm

amother wrote:

Oh yes! I’ve been asked to leave yizkor in more shuls than I care to remember by many different well meaning but nosy women. Some of them were my friends’ mothers.

I'm so surprised that you and other posters were told to leave yizkor. My parent was niftar when I was young and we davened in quite a few shuls over the years, nobody ever said anything to us when we stayed in for yizkor.

For us the hard part was all the pitying looks we got when everyone passed us on their way out.

I really don't understand how anyone could tell a child to leave by yizkor. Or try to blame them for their parent dying. As Chayalla wrote, don't these people remember about not causing pain to an orphan?

As far as the remarrying comments, nobody said anything to us about it at shiva, but I remember a few times when I was a teenager and people asked if my parent was planning to remarry. I don't know, we don't discuss that, it's not something I want to think about, and it's definitely not your business!! If they get engaged I'm sure you'll hear about it. If you have a great shidduch idea, call an adult friend of hers or relative. Leave me the %^**&%% alone!

amother

Mauve

Tue, Jan 08 2019, 9:30 pm

When I lost my mother at a relatively young age, someone tried to fix my father up through me!
I learnt to stay a short time, say the brocha and leave. There was someone who came for my sister, who had a newborn at the time, and stayed for the longest time because she felt bad that no-one else was there. We were so relieved to finally have a lull. It isn't easy sitting and talking all week.