S/o shiva calls | Imamother

amother

Crimson

Mon, Jan 07 2019, 8:30 pm

After reading the mentioned post and recently being involved in a recent shiva situation. Was wondering if people felt that the shiva process was therapeutic for them?

amother

Dodgerblue

Mon, Jan 07 2019, 8:45 pm

No. Would have rather been working; however, when my father passed, it did show me how many people I should be thankful for and keep in mind. Neighbors I barely speak to, friends I haven't spoken to in a few years, etc. My father passed away suddenly and very young so it could be that since it was so shocking, I would have rather gone back into a regular routine since my life prior wasn't really focusing on and busy with him being sick, etc.

Cheiny

Mon, Jan 07 2019, 9:24 pm

amother wrote:

Many people are unaware of the real purpose of shiva. It is not first and foremost for the aveilim. It is for the benefit of the niftar.

amother

Cyan

Mon, Jan 07 2019, 9:35 pm

I didn't sit shiva for my preemie. she was alive for 3 months, we asked a sheila and at that time was happy with the psak that the baby never came home from the hospital and wasn't breathing on its own so we shouldn't. Later on we heard from other rabbonim that we should have but it was too late. 10 years past and it still bothers me. Somehow I feel that ppl. think I had a miss or stillborn. They cant understand why I would tell my children about her. I feel uncomfortable when my kids mention her to others, I feel judged. I feel like I didn't have a chance to mourn properly. If I would've sat shiva they would know she was a person, viable. I lost my daughter it wasn't a pregnancy gone wrong.

Fox

Mon, Jan 07 2019, 9:43 pm

I think sitting shiva does have psychological benefits for the aveilim, one of which is that it is completely exhausting. By the time it ends, you're eager to get back to your normal routine. That desire for normalcy is an important step in the grieving process.

In fact, many times aveilim feel a little guilty for feeling relief that shiva is over. But without it, there's no demarcation between intense mourning and subsequent return to daily life.

amother

Seashell

Mon, Jan 07 2019, 10:15 pm

Over 2 years later, and I still can't put into words how torturous shiva was. Almost like I still have ptsd from it. It was absolutely excruciating, emotionally.

I don't think I got anything positive from it at all tbh. It was all around horrible.

I was only able to begin processing the loss after shivah.

amother

Dodgerblue

Mon, Jan 07 2019, 11:25 pm

Cheiny wrote:

Many people are unaware of the real purpose of shiva. It is not first and foremost for the aveilim. It is for the benefit of the niftar.

Just to clarify: I wasn't commenting on the purpose of shiva rather just responding to OPs question. I think you misunderstood what I said.... it's like if someone asked if you find kosher food good and you answer "No. I'd rather eat treif." That doesn't mean you dont understand the importance of Kashrus, but rather your feelings say something different. Anyways, we dont live according to feelings so they are pretty much irrelevant.

imasoftov

Tue, Jan 08 2019, 2:27 am

Cheiny wrote:

Many people are unaware of the real purpose of shiva. It is not first and foremost for the aveilim. It is for the benefit of the niftar.

There are sources that speak about benefits for the departed, but they might fall short of that benefit being the "real purpose". Or not. But we won't know without seeing them.

ETA: also for the idea that the purpose of shivah is theraputic. Not that it can be, but that this is the reason it was instituted.

Last edited by imasoftov on Tue, Jan 08 2019, 3:31 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Hotpink

Tue, Jan 08 2019, 3:20 am

For me shiva was very beneficial (for my mother). It was amazing all the people who came, and seeing people from the past and present - friends of ours, and of my mother. And being together with all my siblings, so many memories, laughing and crying together.
A bit like after you give birth and the outside world kind of stops around you, it's the same with shiva - you kind of dive into a different reality and then emerge at the end, and back into real life.

PinkFridge

Tue, Jan 08 2019, 7:54 am

Cheiny wrote:

Many people are unaware of the real purpose of shiva. It is not first and foremost for the aveilim. It is for the benefit of the niftar.

True. There are situations where it's not halachically mandated, e.g. young baby, converts, and it's not like the family doesn't need time off and healthy ritual. But there is no question that the halachos are brilliant and most conducive to emotional health.

ETA: My apologies to those for whom shiva was gehenom. I can see it. I sat shiva for my parents as a teen and as a grandmother, and am grateful it wasn't as bad as it could have been.

yo'ma

Tue, Jan 08 2019, 8:06 am

I don't know. My mother's death was not a surprise and I mourned for a few months before. The fact that people came was weird for me though because I'm not a people person especially people I haven't seen in years and had nothing to do with. It was really nice they came though. The hardest part was that we only sat for 3 days because it was yom Kippur and we didn't have only family time. That would have been amazing to be with all my siblings and talk about our mother. We sometimes do things on her yahrtzeit but not everyone is there including me.

amother

Coffee

Tue, Jan 08 2019, 8:25 am

smileforamile wrote:

This thread is making me understand why people close to me did not want to disclose to others when and where they were sitting shiva. They didn't want to deal with the emotional drain. I always thought that might be the case...

Yup. I had to sit shiva for my deadbeat dad. I hardly told anyone. I couldn't deal with people who don't know me well telling me how sorry they are that my father died. It wasn't sad; it was good riddance.

I asked a shaila and I was able to decide what I would and wouldn't do.
It was not therapeutic.

amother

Copper

Tue, Jan 08 2019, 8:35 am

My baby was niftar on a day that cancelled the shiva week. For me, it was a blessing for which I was so grateful for. I felt that HKBH was shielding me from all the clueless and painful remarks I would have been exposed to at such a vulnerable time.
Sometimes there’s nothing to say, and that’s when people don’t think before talking, they think they have to say something.
(Got to hear plenty of them afterwards.)

amother

Linen

Tue, Jan 08 2019, 8:45 am

I sat shiva for my little sister who I was close to and was sick for a long time. As terrible as it sounds, I really enjoyed sitting shiva. For the last 4 years I had been forcing myself to do "normal things" every day when 90% of my brain was busy worrying about her or wishing I could be spending time with her instead. Over those 4 years, I sat through classes in high school when a teacher mentioned that we had such a carefree existence and only when we started a family would we know what it really means to daven. I went to work every day. I tried to hang out with my friends when deep down I thought their everyday concerns were petty. I did my best to act like a normal person. Shiva was a week where I could do exactly what I wanted: sit at home and think about my sister.
Hugs to everyone who felt that sitting shiva wasn't helpful or was hurtful. I can definitely understand that in many circumstances it can cause extra aggravation. I just wanted to share a different perspective.

keym

Tue, Jan 08 2019, 8:56 am

I appreciated the rules in that I had no idea what to do or how to breathe in the initial pain, so I appreciated that I was dictated what to do.
I appreciated that all my fathers siblings came so we were able to spend the whole week together.

I didn't appreciate the show, spectacle, and eventual hurt feelings that happens when many grieving people are stuck together.
And the stupid comments....

amother

Seashell

Tue, Jan 08 2019, 9:25 am

imasoftov wrote:

Can you please explain your ETA? Are you saying that it was or wasn't instituted for the purpose of being therapeutic?