S/O excuse thead - how do chassidim manage?

Chayalle

Wed, Jan 09 2019, 10:37 am

amother wrote:

Not every stereotype is true in every case, but there are enough spotless, well run chassidish homes to make the stereotype largely true.

I don't see the same level of perfection elsewhere often.

I've seen plenty of such homes in Lakewood.

amother

Cerulean

Wed, Jan 09 2019, 10:37 am

I've been reading these household management threads and each one where ppl detail how it works for them, their husbands (or fathers) were a significant contributor to getting tasks done. Interesting,no? It means that superwomen aren't really doing it alone. So if you are alone in the responsibilities, I would think one can cut herself some slack.

amother

Aqua

Wed, Jan 09 2019, 10:39 am

amother wrote:

I agree that a lot of the chassidish ladies are very not spiritual, but I don't think it's caused by being obsessed with style or clean homes. I think it's reverse, where the obsession is an outgrowth of the lack of spiritual education given to them.

In many of the chassidish schools, the Jewish education stressed is mostly halacha and tznius guidelines. Hashkafah is very limited, and the girls are taught not to think for themselves. They're taught not to question too much, fulfill their roles, and just follow their husband's and Rav's expectation of them.

Every person has to expend and invest their energy into something. So if not much of it is going into spirituality or divested into other places, all their energy ends up being directed into one place - dressing their kids and their upkeep of their home. If all the energy flows into one area, it can easily transform into an obsession.

(And just to preempt the expected - Yes, not all chassidim are like this and yes, not all chassidish school are like this.)

Well said.

amother

Magenta

Wed, Jan 09 2019, 10:40 am

FranticFrummie wrote:

I'm curious about Yeshivish women. They have to work full time to support their learning husbands. The husbands often learn all day, come home for dinner, go to night seder, and aren't back home until 11pm or even later.

Hey frantic frummie:) I'm yeshivish . Ask away!

amother

Natural

Wed, Jan 09 2019, 10:55 am

FranticFrummie wrote:

Yeshivish here. We prioritize things very differently than chassidish. Less emphasis on designer clothing or sparkling homes. Clean homes yes, but not museums.

I can't speak for everyone, but I for one, will prioritize spending time with my kids over cleaning my house. When they are asleep, I clean up, wash dishes, sweep, etc. But when they are awake, I spend time with them. Talk to the them. Build and maintain close relationships with them. Make them feel special and loved.

I work till 3:30 so household things get prioritized too. Nobody ever died of an unmade bed. Nobody grew up with issues because dishes were left overnight in the sink. Seriously. The house is clean, but not perfect. It's lived in, by quite a few people. It's fine if it looks like that!

Before Shabbos, I do like to have more of the sparkling clean look, but it doesn't last too long!

Iymnok

Wed, Jan 09 2019, 10:56 am

FranticFrummie wrote:

Dh comes home from Shul then often takes 1-3 kids to school. He comes home about three and starts work around four. He surfaces for maariv and bedtime and sometimes has a break for dinner.
Sometimes he does some dishes or cleans the kitchen while listening to a shiur.
He tries to set the shabbos table Thursday night.
I generally have clutter everywhere. Maybe one day I’ll figure out how to get up and make it tidy around here.
It’s just not my highest priority.

amother

Linen

Wed, Jan 09 2019, 11:07 am

pesek zman wrote:

The women work FT? Where is this that chasidish women work full time? Because the streets and stores and restaurants of BP are packed with young chassidish women and kids all day, every day.

Disclaimer: I'm not from the US.
I'm chasidish, have 4 kids work FT and my house is a total wreck. I'm not an exception in my community (ok maybe the wrecked house part Wink

)

amother

Goldenrod

Wed, Jan 09 2019, 11:07 am

Why do people keep bringing up Chasidish and designer clothes? Half of them don’t even know many of the brand company names. When I go to The Red Balloon it’s mixed with people that don’t cover their hair to long wigs to other type of women.

ra_mom

Wed, Jan 09 2019, 11:09 am

I love a clean home. I strive for it. But it doesn't come naturally to me and I had to work for it, so much trial and error and research and I had to teach myself the best methods. I think that even though I do it, it will always be a struggle for me, and I constantly have to push myself and remind myself and it's hard! Sometimes it falls apart but I try to pick myself back up again.
I'm not chassidish nor Hungarian though we do have some of that background (1/4).

keym

Wed, Jan 09 2019, 11:14 am

I find that the Yeshivish women in my world are way more likely to attempt clean houses but not spotless. Meals are served, but basic. Macaroni and cheese, scrambled eggs, tuna etc are perfectly fine.
The Yeshivish women I know simplify many of their household priorities. Laundry washed but only shabbos shirts ironed, reasonably clean house, etc. And their husbands help A LOT. Thurs night at the Co-Op is practically men's only hours. Same the 2 weeks before Pesach. Dr Shaniks office from 2-3:30 and 7-9 is packed with fathers doing sick visits, doing well visits.
I babysit/ playgroup. The Yeshivish Kollel wives, do drop off and pick up on legal holidays. Totty does all the rest.

jewishmom6

Wed, Jan 09 2019, 11:36 am

keym wrote:

Agree on this one.

amother

Pink

Wed, Jan 09 2019, 11:53 am

My mom has a spotless home, supper ready on time, clean laundry and is still very devoted to her kids. My father works late hours so he barely helps. It’s in her bones and she is very geshikt and she managed very well. She has cleaning help once a week. And she is so NOT into designer clothing. I don’t remember owning anything specifically because it was brand name. We always dressed well and she isn’t stingy but totally not overspending type. And she is brilliant and plenty spiritual.
I work, I’m not a supermom like her but my husband comes home every night to a clean house and supper on the table or almost ready. I have cleaning help for 4 hours a week. And I have twin newborns to add to the fun so I have a nanny now.
As a side point, I’m a bit unsure why you always stereotype chassidish people synonymous to brand names. I find that Flatbush ladies and also many Lakewood women dress so much more expensive than chassidish communities. Standards there are way higher.

amother

Pink

Wed, Jan 09 2019, 11:57 am

And please advise why it is so difficult to make beds. It’s a mindset more than anything. It takes exactly 30 seconds to make a bed. And the same goes to many household chores. Dishes don’t take more than 15 minutes and toys take 10 minutes every night to pack away.
I just go through all the rooms every night, doing one at a time and see what takes a minute to clear away or organize. It feels so much better to live in an organized home.

ectomorph

Wed, Jan 09 2019, 11:59 am

naturalmom5 wrote:

Precisely, I do business with many of these Chasidish ladies..

Most are very very nervous. Getting the right accessories for their child's hair or the right floor cleaner is way more intense and deadly serious then Trump negotiating with Kim..

I learn with secular women through Partners in Torah. They are 100x more spiritual than any of these spitz balibustas....

Judaism is a marriage, not a date. Of course it's easy to act surface-level excited for something that is new and you only spend an hour a week on it. Deeper connections are not as visible.

ShishKabob

Wed, Jan 09 2019, 12:00 pm

naturalmom5 wrote:

puhlease! if this isn't racist, bigotry, or any adjective you want to insert here, I wonder what is

amother

Aquamarine

Wed, Jan 09 2019, 12:24 pm

I grew up in a very different style community than I do know. I grew up with big families, plus mothers working plus being involved in cheder, shiurim, hosting guests, plus a proper supper ever night. My mother worked very hard. I’m the younger part of a big family and Mishi h siblings live similar lives to how I grew up. Super accomplished, lots of children, close knit families, excellent balabastas, etc...

I try to live like that but I am so lazy and privileged compared to my siblings. I have a ton on household help, and do way less other stuff, have a smaller family etc...

Meanwhile for my current community, people are amazed by how much I do, working part time, hosting shiurim, Involved in cheder opportunities, how I run my home

For a few years, I couldn’t figure it out. And I just came to the conclusion, whether it’s nature or nurture, some people are more capable than other people.
Not everyone has the same threshold for coping and managing.

And that’s ok.

amother

Navy

Wed, Jan 09 2019, 12:26 pm

ectomorph wrote:

Judaism is a marriage, not a date. Of course it's easy to act surface-level excited for something that is new and you only spend an hour a week on it. Deeper connections are not as visible.

Thank you, this is such a great line. I do think it's also personality based, that those secular people who are the "spiritual" types are more likely to end up learning more about Torah. Many of them struggle later when it comes to the day to day of raising a family.
I personally have parents who are baalei teshuva. During my teens I became more yeshivish; my parents did as well. I married into a yeshivish family, and had difficulty connecting with my sisters in law and mother in law because I felt that they were superficial. Ultimately, I realized that they simply didn't need to talk about spiritual topics; it was something that they took for granted, more simple for them, something that exists in the background, while the foreground is more focused on things like feeding and clothing their children. This won't change who I am, and I may never be able to fully relate to them, but I understand and accept their way of fulfilling their life's purpose.

amother

Beige

Wed, Jan 09 2019, 12:33 pm

amother wrote:

Agree, I just spend shabbas in a hotel with mixed crowd (bp, Williamsburg, Lakewood). Definitely the Lakewood crowd was the best dressed! Not overdone, not shlumpy, but real eye candy.
My mother is chassidish and she also has cleaning help once a week, but I find the cleaning is focused on a wrong way. While the cleaning lady washes the bathrooms once a week, my mother washes walls and floors daily! The bathrooms are absolutely disgusting! Funny thing: my aunts are exactly the same.